Wine yeast in beer

[jenivida]

I like to brew stronger beers OG 1.066 plus.

I struggle to get the final gravity down to desired levels and have bottled a few batches that did not get below 1.035

I am pretty sure that I am under pitching the yeast, 1 packet of yeast per batch. So I could just pitch 2 packets or move to liquid yeast with a starter but I have been reading about brewers using wine yeast in a secondary to get the FG to reasonable levels.

3 questions.

1. anyone tried it?
2. which wine yeast? I hear champagne a lot but will any do?
3. will I get weird flavours from it?

Cheers
Jenivida

 

[jeg3]

I've seen a Belgian recipe which pitches champagne yeast, so it's not unheard of

 

[jacobyeah]

Both premier cru larger from the champagne region and curious brew larget from Tenterden right here in Kent use champagne yeast to finish the fermentation.

 

[YeastFace]

I've read that wine yeasts are not very efficient at converting maltose, although conversely saisons yeasts are meant to have developed from a mutated red wine yeast.

You can use sparkling wine yeast to bottle condition if you prime with sugar.

 

[jenivida]

So I did a bit of research last night.

You can use Wine yeast in beer brewing and it can make some very nice flavours in your beer.

White wine strains giving you apple and pear or tropical/citrus flavours

Red wine yeast giving you cherry or berry flavours

There are a few things you need to be aware of

1. Wine yeast is not good at converting maltose so if using wine yeast on its own it will not make a dry beer. However you can use it an enzyme like convertase or Fungal α-amylase which will convert the maltose to convertable sugar. Problem with this is that the FG can get down to zero so it is recommended to split the ferment into 2 batches and do one with an enzyme and one without and then combine them before bottling.

2. Some wine Yeasts can produce flavours that you might not want in a beer Phenolic Off Flavors or POF so what you want is a POF negative yeast.

3. Some yeasts don't interact well with others, apparently there are three classes of yeast (competitive factors) Killer, neutral or susceptible. Almost all beer brewing yeasts are susceptible meaning they can work with other susceptible yeasts but will stop fermenting if mixed with a killer yeast. Unfortunately a lot of wine yeasts are Killers. So if mixing the best plan is to let the Beer yeast finish fermenting and then add the Wine yeast for a secondary ferment. Apparently Killer yeasts have developed a defence mechanism that releases a protein that inhibits other yeasts.

Here are some POF negative Wine Yeast strains that I found details on ( these are all produced by http://www.lallemand.com/ )

71b (susceptible)
Ec1118 (champagne) (killer)
K1v1116 (killer)
Gre (killer)
Bm45 (killer)
L2226 (killer)

so 71b could potentially be put in near the start of a ferment with a beer yeast.

Oh and the reason Champagne yeast is so popular is that it has a very neutral Flavour wise, it is extremely hardy and it works well at high alcohol levels so it helps make a really dry beer without changing the flavour too much.

Most of this information I got from this pod cast on the brewing network
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1888/ over 2 hours long but quite interesting once they stop talking about guns (Americans )

I think if I do this I will just add some wine yeast to a secondary after primary fermentation is complete.

- Update -

apparently Lalvin K1-V1116 wine yeast can convert maltose but its a killer so dont mix.

 

[daniel_oud]

1. How much beer is your batch? Even when underpitching a attuniation of less than 50% is low.
2. What is the recipe? Malts yeast mash schedule etc.

 

[Covrich]

what Yeast are you pitching?? Some yeasts such as Belgian Trappist yeasts for example will rip through 1070 down to 1010-1020.. I had a US05 yeast go from 1074 down to 1014.

Look at the attenuation of the yeasts you are pitching as well..

 

[jenivida]

maybe my mash temp is wrong?

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 16
Boil Size: 19
Mash Time 90 min
Boil Time: 90 min
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage

Ingredients

Amt - Name Type # %/IBU

5.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 95.2 %
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (236.4 EBC) Grain 2 4.8 %
20.00 g Enigma [16.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 3 26.2 IBUs
40.00 g Enigma [16.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 4 31.3 IBUs
40.00 g Enigma [16.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 5 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg British Ale Yeast (Mangrove Jack's #M07) Yeast 6 -

Mash was at a single temp with no mash out 67 degrees C for 90 minutes.