Whirlpooling

[Harbey]

I always thought the point of a whirlpool was to send all the hop and break material into a cone to aid draining the wort and not clogging the pump. I've been looking at some recipes recently, however, and they talk about a 30min whirlpool. Surely that doesn't mean whirlpooling for 30mins does it? What's the point of it? I find a couple of minutes max is sufficient. Or am I interpreting it wrong?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

The whirlpool (or hopstand) is a late addition of hops at a lower temperature to get a big hit of hop flavour.

If you actually do whirlpool then you will collect all the debris towards the middle when you finish.

 

[The Baron]

when it says whirlpool it generally applies to adding hops as Hazelwood has said but it can also be used as a term to whirlpool just to get the hop debris into a cone as you have said if so you can do it with a good stir with a spoon vigorously to create a whirlpool so the hops sitin the middle to aid a cleaner transfer of your wort to the FV.
If you are whirlpooling for hop additions it is done at a set temperature for a set time say 85c for 20 mins.
When doing that you can either use a whirlpool arm to create the whirlpool of if you have a AIO with a pump use the pump with its mash arm to keep the hops moving for more flavour

 

[Harbey]

Hmmm. So whirlpool additions would be the same as flame out I guess? It seems to be a term that has caught on a lot in the last year or so.

With whirlpool/flameout additions, there are a couple of issues which I always feel contradict 'good practice'.
1. I thought that once we turned the heat off, the idea was to get the wort into a sanitised, sealed vessel asap to avoid possible infection. Seems odd to leave it at 80c for 30mins.(although I have done so on many occasion).
2. I also thought that we were looking to cool the wort as quickly as possible for various clarity reasons which I don't fully understand . Again, leaving the wort to just cool by itself for half an hour seems to go against this.

Probably over thinking it but as I say, one piece of info seems to contradict the other .

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

With whirlpool/hopstand (same as whirlpool without the spinning!) additions you are usually more precise than letting the wort gradually cool. You chill to a set temperature and then hold the wort at that temperature for the duration of the hopstand. Once done you then chill to pitching temperature.

The whirlpool temperature is often quoted as around 80C but there is a difference at different temperatures just as there is with the mash temperature. 90C favours fruity notes, 80C favours floral, 70C favours woody/spicy.

Rapidly cooling wort is in part to minimise the window where the wort is at just the right temperature for wild yeast and bacteria to take hold and also to minimise DMS (DiMethylSulfide). DMS is produced from the grain, and then the wort, at high temperatures. During the boil it is boiled off but as the temperature cools you still produce it but it’s not being boiled off. It gives your beer a vegetable off taste usually described as cooked corn.

Anthing over 70C is considered safe because it’s too hot for those unwanted beasties.

 

[The Baron]

You are correct whirlpooling and Flameout are really the same except you do move the wort with re-circulation. Regards putting in hops at a lower temp than boiling the hops supposed to be antiseptical preservative if that is such a word and that's why they used to put lots of hops in the original India Pale Ale to help keep the beer on its long journey.
Now cooling the wort down ASAP is a contentious situation with brewers some believe it is absolute but others like me do not chill at all (NO Chill). All I can say it whilst you are cooling or whirlpooling try and keep the boil kettle covered.
IMO some brewers are too anal with the cooling I have not cooled mine for years and as long as you have a good cleaning and sanitation system you will be ok.
Ps this only my opinion

 

[The Baron]

you must have been typing yours at the same time as me Hazelwood

 

[Tanglefoot]

I generally let the wort cool naturally in the pan to 80c then add my hops for an hour hopstand, before chilling to pitch temp
or sometimes ( if it's got late in the day ) leaving to chill overnight and pitching in the morning.
Either way never had a problem.
I'll try varying the hopstand time after reading Hazelwood's post.

Flameout I took to mean as soon as gas is turned off i.e 100c and falling, difference being there will still be some bittering effects
in early stages.

 

[Harbey]

The whirlpool temperature is often quoted as around 80C but there is a difference at different 90C favours fruity notes, 80C favours floral, 70C favours woody/spicy.

That's interesting. Particularly that bit about keeping the temp at the whirlpool temp - I've never done that, I just switch the heat off. I'll be trying it on my next brew. And that about different flavours at different temps, again I've never read this before but seems very interesting. Opens up lots of new options and possibilities. Thanks all.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Be mindful you will get some bitterness so this might influence your chosen temperature and duration.

At 90C you will get about half the IBUs as a boil for the same duration.

At 80C about quarter.

At 70C about 10%

 

[The Baron]

Flameout means you turn off the heat add the hops and let it freefall so you will get addition bittering from 100c to approx 80c.Whirlpool means you put the hops in at a set temp 100c 90c 80c or anywhere between and maintain the temp for a set time with the hops in, the higher the temp the more bitterness you will get from the hops

 

[Harbey]

You two are doing that synchronised thing again aren't you?

Cheers fellas. I've only been using the Grainfather software and I'm not sure (but I'll check) if it takes whirlpool hops into consideration of IBU. I'm looking to move to Brewfather but keep getting put off the idea once I start a brew and the GF app takes over.

 

[Harbey]

Big disservice to the GF app - it does calculate IBU including any 'hopstand' as GF terms it.

 

[The Baron]

I thought it would most of the brewing apps do this now but do not take the IBU's calculated as absolute but they will be near enough to help you with your recipes building