Which yeast is best to re-start a "stuck" English Porter?

[Redsnapper]

I know this is a common query, and I have read threads on here for advice.My English porter has a stuck fermentation,and after 13 days I have been daft enough to rack it to a second F.V. unfortunately before I tested the F.G. its 1021!!!
So no trug to stir up.
Question is I have a sachet of Safale S-04 or the standard yeast sachet from a Woodfordes Wherry kit.If I re pitch the yeast, which would be the best match for an English Porter.Or is another yeast more appropriate? Hoping that someone can give me a steer.
This was quite an expensive kit at £25, so I am disappointed that I have got something wrong with temp variations,pitching or aeration of the wort.I was quite careful with all. There was a lot of dead yeast in the bottom about 1 cm, twice as much as my 1st kit attempt so I thought that's gone well!!! :wha:

Will cheer myself up later today with a brew. Maybe I'll have more luck with a Festival Old Suffolk Strong Ale I have been looking to get going.

Cheers :thumb:

 

[morethanworts]

I wouldn't worry too much about which strain from a flavour point of view; most of the characteristics will have been made in the first three days, while the yeast was still growing. Kit yeasts are usually 6g, which is only just over half of what you'd be getting in your s-04 or something. Any yeast added may affect the ultimate level of attenuation that you get, though it's going to have to immediately get used to a more hostile environment (more alcoholic and lower pH than an unfermented wort).

I haven't actually had to do this myself, and someone might suggest you just raise the temperature in the secondary nicely up to 21C or a touch above, give it a stir, and don't add anything, depending how clear it was at racking. I think some folk just chuck in a rehydrated us-05 in similar situations, though I think I would make a starter, to get the yeast acclimatised to the environment first. NB I would not normally make a starter with dry yeast, only rehydrate.

S-04 may well do the job. If you're not used to making starters, I'd be tempted to rehydrate it properly (see the THBF How To) and stir that in, with a little aerating (normally avoided at this stage). See how that goes, and take it from there. I would only do any of this if I was pretty sure that turning up the heat and rousing alone was not getting anywhere.

What was your OG?

 

[Redsnapper]

Thanks for your reply.O.G. was 1042 and yesterday it was 1021.Gonna check it this evening to see if racking has spurred on any activity.But it was really quite clear.
However a bit of yeast did drop from my first kit in the second F.V. so ya never know.Still be surprised if it get's going tho.
I have no experience of rehydrating yeast or making a starter.More reading on here I suspect.

I was quite worried about spoiling the flavour, so if that's not a major concern then that's one less thing to worry about.

Thanks for the post!
:thumb:

 

[morethanworts]

You could get your Wherry kit on in the first FV, and use some of the top yeast from that to get your current one going again. It's another option. Wherrys are themselves quite known to stick, though, and I pitched extra yeast with them. Be sure to rehydrate dry yeast and aerate well.

 

[joker]

there's a recent thread here on jbk relating to a stuck fermentation. maybe a few ideas for you to consider. as said above though there's every chance you'll end up with a decent beer. good luck.

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/view ... =2&t=64665

 

[Redsnapper]

Late last night I rehydrated a 6g packet of yeast from a Wherry kit.Gave it 30 mins in 60 ml of cooled boiled water.(It was still just warm then let it sit covered for 30 mins)Then stirred it into the wort without causing too many bubbles.
As my brew is at 1021 and I will be able to bottle at say 1012 or lower, I am hoping this will be enough to get this brew over the line!
Here's hoping. Time will tell.

Thanx for all the input.

Cheers :thumb:

 

[morethanworts]

Hope it gets going.

As for replacing the wherry yeast, when you come to do that, I'd recommend going with any Nottingham strain, such as the Gervin English Ale Yeast at Wilkos or elsewhere. This is what I used with Wherry, twice, with excellent results. Pitching the Wherry with 11g of yeast is a much better prospect for that, anyway. If it's Nottingham, rehydrate at 30-35C.

:thumb:

 

[Redsnapper]

Cheers for that will try the Gervin yeast with my Wherry Kit.

36 hrs since I repitched and no real activity except a trug building up with no krausen or activity on top,I do not have an air lock on my second F.V. so can't gauge activity.Thinkin about givin it a stir up.

If it doesn't move much can I bottle it with say half the normal amount of priming sugar,and just leave it for a month or so.

Ta.

 

[morethanworts]

Cheers for that will try the Gervin yeast with my Wherry Kit.

36 hrs since I repitched and no real activity except a trug building up with no krausen or activity on top,I do not have an air lock on my second F.V. so can't gauge activity.Thinkin about givin it a stir up.

If it doesn't move much can I bottle it with say half the normal amount of priming sugar,and just leave it for a month or so.

Ta.

Check the SG, just in case it's dropped, but otherwise definitely give it a stir up! You want whatever yeast there is in suspension. Ignore airlocks completely anyway, just trust the hydrometer. As it's off the bulk yeast, I would keep it under airlock though, just don't see bubbles as any guide.

No... I wouldn't bottle anything unless I was sure it had fermented out. In this case I'd guess you're looking at 1.012 tops, and stable SG for three days. Typical ale priming would only equate to a couple of gravity points. Any delay in full attenuation could easily conceal more than that left to go, and you may have over pressurised bottles on your hands.

 

[calumscott]

The best advice for restarting stuck ones is that you don't just need fresh yeast, you need fresh, active yeast and plenty of it!

If I was stuck and didn't have a freshly finished brew to rack and re-use its trub I'd make up a couple of litres of fresh starter. A packet of whatever yeast you fancy, 200g DME and 2 litres of water, ferment until it's really active then pitch that.

 

[Redsnapper]

Sorry for not replying guy's.Tested this last night and no change still at 1021.Was repitched with a 6g packet from a wherry kit on tuesday night and I rehydrated that................but nada.Just clear flat wort.The smell is different, but I am putting that down to yeast in suspension which is clearly inactive.
I do not have any DME,and only a packet of Safale S-04,so I am wondering if that plus a couple of litres of water and 200g of Tate and Lyle made into a starter will get me going.It's all good experience for a newbie like me,which means that as long as the end result isn't mingin' :sick: it'll get scoffed.
Gettin worried re infection,what with testing the gravity, and pokin around to see if any CO2 has built up.That said any thing that touches the beer is sanitised, and the lid is only off for seconds at a time.
Was brewed up on the 11/02/14.So two and a half weeks old and not fermented out yet.
:shock:
Cheers

 

[morethanworts]

It does indeed sound like time for a starter to me, but you need to know how to do it, which includes using some DME (or LME). You don't want to be using sugar in a starter. Do you have a local home brew shop or just a Wilkos nearby? 500g DME won't break the bank, if you can get there.

Beyond that, I've only made starters with liquid yeast and never actually for this particular purpose. Maybe someone who has will advise further. If I were doing it, I'd be mixing 100g DME in a litre* of tepid water in a pan (to get about 1.040), boiling for 15 mins (lid on) cooling in ice water. Towards the end of that, I'd rehydrate my s-04 separately in 120ml of boiled water cooled to 27C (correct temp for s-04) in a sanitised jug, stood covered (just at room temp) for 15 mins, then add dollops of the wort in 5 min steps, cooled to around 20C, bringing the temp of the yeast gradually down to 20C. The yeast needs to be pitched into the starter within 30 mins of rehydrating really, though I'd make sure the temp of both was very close first - certainly within 5C. I have a conical flask for it to work in, but you can use a DJ or even a sanitsed 2L+ water bottle too, covered but not sealed. Shake well to aerate and shake every hour for the first 12 hours at least and keep at around 21-22C. Opinions vary on the best time to then pitch it into your brew. I'd probably pitch the whole lot (adjusted to temperature of your brew) once the yeast had a thick head on top of the starter and was at maximum activity. If you're still shaking at that point, the head will obviously be smashed down a bit, but you can hopefully still judge the level of activity.

Good luck.

*EDIT - Actually, just use 880ml of water there, to allow for the 120ml rehydrating the yeast.

 

[adomant]

This could be a case of the yeast have eaten all they feel like eating and have gone to sleep. In which case adding more yeast won't help as the original yeast will have consumed all the available nutrients first and will have camped in leaving nothing for any competing micro culture. One possible solution is to get the original yeast back to the diner table by adding some invert sugar and rousing (stirring without foaming) so that they rediscover their appetite and hopefully eat up what they left earlier

 

[Redsnapper]

Hi guys, thanks again for your input.I have just been to my local Home Brew Shop Brewstore in Edinburgh.Got a few things I needed whilst there and had a good chat with the guys as well re my Porter.So I have some Beer Enzyme to try,this may dry it out a bit but the thinking is this is the best way to get a result quickly and get this brew into bottles.Cos I need to get brewing!!!

I did get some light spraymalt so I can always try to knock up a starter if needs be.They are good guys and didn't charge me for the enzyme sachet.And I have some spraymalt to beef up my next kit. :lol:

I should be careful in there as I am like a big kid in a sweetie shop as soon as I cross the threshold.

So the plot thickens. I will let ya ken!! (Edinburgh slang for know)!!

Cheers :thumb:

 

[Redsnapper]

Losing the faith with this brew.The drain beckons!! Put in 1/2g of beer enzyme on 02/03/14 as I was advised.No activity has resulted.I have a brew now at 1018 after 25 days.The sample jar contents in a large wine glass held up to halogen kitchen spotlights are very cloudy with large 1mm bits of what I assume is yeast in suspension.After only 20 minutes the amount of deposit at the bottom of the glass is considerable.And it is not clearing fast.A very faint sour smell also.Although I could be imagining the last point.

Considering bottling and see what I get after 8 weeks.Possibly several hours redecorating the kitchen walls.
Want to get on with another brew.
Pretty fed up.Gonna have a beer.need to buy em tho.Unfortunately my 1st effort IPA is still a bit green after just over 2 weeks in the bottle.

 

[Redsnapper]

Hi again, I tested this again last night and got a reading of 1016 or possibly 1017 accounting for the wort climbing up the side of the hydrometer slightly.Plus it is now crystal clear.I had lifted the second F.V. clumsily for my previous reading and may have disturbed the sediment,before drawing off a sample from a tap at the bottom of the bucket.Hence nasty sample!!
Seems much better now crystal clear,smells nicer,nice colour too.So I suppose patience is the name of the game! A trug is very slowly appearing but no discernable CO2 activity.
I think it may be worth giving it another week to see if it moves further.As soon as it hits 1014 it's bottling time.
Wondering about giving it a good stir???

Oh and my IPA is turning the corner and tastes much nicer. :P

Keeping the faith and trying to be patient
:whistle:

 

[Redsnapper]

Update time.This beer worked out nicely.It finished a deep ruby red colour,with a creamy oatmeal head.A really nice looking beer. A slightly sweet malty taste, really rather nice and moreish.Took a while in bottles conditioning to turn round.
However not very strong I reckon 3.1% ABV. Drank several with no discernable effect.But nice to supp in front of the telly.
I have a brew belt and keep a close eye on temps now. I think this has helped subsequent brews greatly.
This kit brewed out properly to say 4.5% would be lovely.Would give it 8 weeks to condition in bottles tho.
Have 6 bottles stashed for a 6 month test.Will report back then.

 

[Redsnapper]

Finished the last of these a couple of nights ago.Bottled on the 11th MARCH 2014!!! A long term test indeed.Improved a bit with age,really clear and nice carbonation.Still a bit malty and not that strong, reckoned it was about 3.4% ABV. So I reckon it didn't brew out well to begin with.
Tried their Surfers Reward Cornish Ale tho and that turned out great!!:drink: