peterpiper
Regular.
Are some people just genetically unable (through polymorphisms in their TAS2R38 gene) to perceive astringency, from tannins in (their) beer, or do they just like it?
And is this why, ideas on best way to use Black Malt, vary so much, and why we get astringent commercial beers?
View attachment 106569
When I started AG brewing, on borrowed equipment, my first few batches were amber ales (like Old Speckled Hen). But I kept thinking they were too bitter (though other tasters all reckoned they were great beers), so kept nudging the BU/GU down (to 0.56) without it helping much.
Now, with own equipment, & busy trying other beer styles. Many with much higher IBU (and higher BU/GU), now all taste fine (to me).
So I'm now wondering if astringincy, rather than bitterness, was the original issue. And those who liked the beers, just don't perceive astringency.
In first brews, on borrowed equipment (under guidance). I didn't adjust mash (or sparge) ph, and the sparge water came straight from a boiling kettle. Maybe that was the mistake.
Now thinking, I should revisit my early recipes.
https://rucore.libraries.rutgers.edu/rutgers-lib/67595/
"It is widely accepted that astringency is mainly caused when salivary proteins are precipitated by polyphenols in the mouth. Individual differences in the perception of astringency are well known but not well-understood. Sensitivity to the bitter compound, 6-n-propylthiouracil (PROP), controlled by polymorphisms in the TAS2R38 gene, has been observed to associate with differences in perception and liking for astringency".
https://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/
"Having had the fortune of tasting at least a hundred different samples of NEIPAs over the past few years, both commercial and homebrew, my biggest recurring complaint in some of the beers is a harsh finish. I think it’s best described as a vegetal bitterness that I would compare to taking a sample straight off of a tank loaded with dry hops. The astringency of the finish in some of these beers, likely caused by an excessive amount of polyphenols..."
"Study that examined unmalted oats (not flour) looked at the impact of replacing barley with oats and the impact on total polyphenol content in the beer from the grain. The authors found that as the oats increased as a percentage of the grist, the polyphenols decreased. Specifically, when 20% barley was swapped with unmalted oats there was a 30% reduction in polyphenols and when 40% barley was swapped with unmalted oats there was a 45% reduction in polyphenols.13Combining the two studies, you can see that brewing with oat flour could decrease the total protein in the beer and decrease the total polyphenols, hopefully leading to less permanent haze due to the binding of the two. For those sensitive to high polyphenol beers, perhaps large amounts of oats might also be a way to still dry hop heavily but with less of the harshness due to lower amount of polyphenols being contributed from the n malt".
View attachment 106569
And is this why, ideas on best way to use Black Malt, vary so much, and why we get astringent commercial beers?
View attachment 106569
When I started AG brewing, on borrowed equipment, my first few batches were amber ales (like Old Speckled Hen). But I kept thinking they were too bitter (though other tasters all reckoned they were great beers), so kept nudging the BU/GU down (to 0.56) without it helping much.
Now, with own equipment, & busy trying other beer styles. Many with much higher IBU (and higher BU/GU), now all taste fine (to me).
So I'm now wondering if astringincy, rather than bitterness, was the original issue. And those who liked the beers, just don't perceive astringency.
In first brews, on borrowed equipment (under guidance). I didn't adjust mash (or sparge) ph, and the sparge water came straight from a boiling kettle. Maybe that was the mistake.
Now thinking, I should revisit my early recipes.
https://rucore.libraries.rutgers.edu/rutgers-lib/67595/
"It is widely accepted that astringency is mainly caused when salivary proteins are precipitated by polyphenols in the mouth. Individual differences in the perception of astringency are well known but not well-understood. Sensitivity to the bitter compound, 6-n-propylthiouracil (PROP), controlled by polymorphisms in the TAS2R38 gene, has been observed to associate with differences in perception and liking for astringency".
https://scottjanish.com/researching-new-england-ipa-neipa-haze/
"Having had the fortune of tasting at least a hundred different samples of NEIPAs over the past few years, both commercial and homebrew, my biggest recurring complaint in some of the beers is a harsh finish. I think it’s best described as a vegetal bitterness that I would compare to taking a sample straight off of a tank loaded with dry hops. The astringency of the finish in some of these beers, likely caused by an excessive amount of polyphenols..."
"Study that examined unmalted oats (not flour) looked at the impact of replacing barley with oats and the impact on total polyphenol content in the beer from the grain. The authors found that as the oats increased as a percentage of the grist, the polyphenols decreased. Specifically, when 20% barley was swapped with unmalted oats there was a 30% reduction in polyphenols and when 40% barley was swapped with unmalted oats there was a 45% reduction in polyphenols.13Combining the two studies, you can see that brewing with oat flour could decrease the total protein in the beer and decrease the total polyphenols, hopefully leading to less permanent haze due to the binding of the two. For those sensitive to high polyphenol beers, perhaps large amounts of oats might also be a way to still dry hop heavily but with less of the harshness due to lower amount of polyphenols being contributed from the n malt".
View attachment 106569
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