Water

[timtoos]

Hi guys,

The water supply which I brew with is from a private source. Its of very good quality but I do not know the wake up of the water at all.
Since the water is straight from the ground is has no added chlorine etc and the water is quite soft (no scale in the kettle).

Would you recommend getting a water sample test done? If so, who would you recommend the test to be carried out by? Looking online, Murphy & Sons will complete the lab tests and they will base the results around brewing. Is it worth getting it tested?

I have made quite a few all grain brews and most of them have turned out great. Would knowing the water makeup make things even better?

Cheers in advance

 

[ManseMasher]

I would say that if you are making good beer already, and it sounds like you're using the water source as a household supply as well, don't bother getting it tested. My water is also very soft - according to the water calculator I should be adding 4 different salts, powders etc. All I do (when I remember!) is add some gypsum to the mash and the boil. If you were thinking of brewing commercially it would be a different matter I suspect...

 

[timtoos]

Thanks for the feedback

 

[MyQul]

I'm with MM on this. If your making good beer already there's no need to mess about with water chemistry. I 'd only do it if this particular area of brewing is of special interest too you. Most HB'ers only need concern themselves with ridding there water of chlorine/chloramine

Edit: Post 18 on this thread is good and informative

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=54744&page=2

 

[clibit]

Agree with MM and MQ, it's not really necessary (though some brewers would disagree), except that it might be nice to know, if the cost isn't a problem. It's an area to work at, makes the hobby more interesting if you like messing about with all the different aspects, and may enable you to improve certain styles.

 

[mabrungard]

More than likely, you have found that some of your brews come out better than others. That is often a result of your water character pairing better with the requirements of the grist and resulting beer. That was the genesis of local beer style. However, if you want to improve those other brews to bring them to the level of your best beers, you do have to 'mess' with your water.

Even if your tap water has no alkalinity, adding a bit of acid to the brew is a necessary thing. We can accomplish that by adding a bit of more acidic malt such as crystal or roast, adding calcium or magnesium salts to the mash, or by adding...acid. All brewing requires acid...some brews just require more than others.

If you are trying to brew a darker style and your water can't supply the alkalinity needed to neutralize that high dose of more acidic roasted malts, then its possible that you'll need to add alkalinity to the mash with a baking soda or lime addition.

The point I'm trying to make is that we have to understand our water supply and how to adjust it if we want to make 'great' beers all the way from the palest lager to the darkest ale. You don't have to overthink this. In many cases, minor adjustment can move your beers well on their way to improvement across the beer spectrum.

 

[clibit]

Thanks Mabrungard. I just tinker, water wise. Gypsum in pales, calc chloride in dark beers, though I tend to just steep the roasted grains separately when brewing stouts and porters. Water chemistry is a bit taxing for me, I just do the minimum to try to push things into the right areas, but I never measure alkalinity or anything.

 

[HebridesRob]

For me, it's about trying to get the pH range of the mash between 5.2 and 5.5 in order to get the enzymes in the mash operating at maximum efficiency. The thing about adding salts at the beginning of the process is to try to effect the correct mash pH by making additions to the water that will buffer the acidity of the malts, so that the pH will be in the correct range. Water tends to be a little alkaline and light malts are more weakly acidic than dark malts so light beers tend to have Sulphates added whilst dark beers have Carbonates.

If I were you, and if I was bothered about water treatment, I wouldn't spend money on a water analysis, I'd spend it on a decent pH meter and I'd adjust the acidity of my mash based on readings from the meter (there are calculators on the net).

If you are happy with the beers you're making leave well alone. If it ain't broke....

 

[Twostage]

I'm in the 'mess with it' camp.

As suggested the water defines the most appropriate brew. My two best brews so far are a porter using water out of a bore hole that was very hard and a lager using bottled water that was almost salt free. Both matched their styles and the results spoke for themselves.

I only use bottled water (our tap water is very chloriney) and always use salt additions for all grain. Sometimes to match the style, sometimes to match the profile of the water where a brew is made.

I've had the murphy analysis recommended to me and if I needed a test I would use them.

Like others have said, it depends how far you want to take it.

Be aware though that to match water profiles you need something that can measure fractions of a gram, I use powder scales (I know they have other uses).

 

[Cwrw666]

The thing is, it's the water you drink every day, so you're used to the taste, so I'd say whatever type of beer you brew it will taste fine to you. Our water is hugely acidic as it comes out of a peat bog. Tastes fine to us and so does my beer, including stout which they all say need hard water. Only down side is that it's full of sheep sh** so I have to boil everything that goes in the FV. Not a problem now I'm doing AG but was a bit of a pain when I was doing kits.

 

[BeerCat]

After reading this thread and quite a few others i am still rather confused as to what i should be adding? I am using a Reverse Osmosis filter that raises the PH to 7. It also adds minerals back but i don't think that's really relevant as the water is only 10ppm. After drinking this for 6 months i really notice how bad the tap water tastes in comparison but some of my beer tastes thin to me and i wonder if this is the reason.

 

[Covrich]

After reading this thread and quite a few others i am still rather confused as to what i should be adding? I am using a Reverse Osmosis filter that raises the PH to 7. It also adds minerals back but i don't think that's really relevant as the water is only 10ppm. After drinking this for 6 months i really notice how bad the tap water tastes in comparison but some of my beer tastes thin to me and i wonder if this is the reason.

I dunno my ph is naturally 7 and I don't find any problem with body.. could that be related to other things like mash temp?

As you may have seen I started a very similar thread on this subject the other day.. It does feel like a real cocktail of issues to get it right..

For now I would go down either enjoying it as it is (what I am going to do for now until I get a bit more experienced at AG) .. or do what clibit does which I think sounds good to me have one or two fixes in place for each style.

 

[HebridesRob]

After reading this thread and quite a few others i am still rather confused as to what i should be adding? I am using a Reverse Osmosis filter that raises the PH to 7. It also adds minerals back but i don't think that's really relevant as the water is only 10ppm. After drinking this for 6 months i really notice how bad the tap water tastes in comparison but some of my beer tastes thin to me and i wonder if this is the reason.

It isn't as simple as just the actual acidity of the water before you start. It's about the the salts that are in the water and the way they buffer the acids in the mash that determines the mash pH.
This is the best explanation I've been able to find...
https://byo.com/hops/item/1493-the-power-of-ph

 

[clibit]

I've no idea how water affects body, but body is affected by the grains used, the OG, the mash temperature and the yeast. Some yeasts reduce the body more than others. Some grains add body. Carapils is often used solely for this purpose. Higher mash temperatures increase the body. Higher OG beers are likely to have more body.

 

[Twostage]

After reading this thread and quite a few others i am still rather confused as to what i should be adding? I am using a Reverse Osmosis filter that raises the PH to 7. It also adds minerals back but i don't think that's really relevant as the water is only 10ppm. After drinking this for 6 months i really notice how bad the tap water tastes in comparison but some of my beer tastes thin to me and i wonder if this is the reason.

It's all relevant. It's a complicated subject and you can't just add stuff (well you can but you will have to wait a few weeks to see if whatever you did made it better or worse). Some people simply do what works for them like adding a teaspoon of gypsum to every brew.

If you are serious about it a good place to start is the John Palmer site and the spreadsheet which you can download at the bottom of this page :-

http://howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-3.html

The spreadsheet will help you to match one water profile to another using various salt additions (but won't do it for you, it's trial and error).

You then have to actually have the salts of course and scales that can measure less than 1 gram additions.

 

[HebridesRob]

After reading this thread and quite a few others i am still rather confused as to what i should be adding? I am using a Reverse Osmosis filter that raises the PH to 7. It also adds minerals back but i don't think that's really relevant as the water is only 10ppm. After drinking this for 6 months i really notice how bad the tap water tastes in comparison but some of my beer tastes thin to me and i wonder if this is the reason.

I kind of didn't read this post properly. If you're using water that has been treated through reverse osmosis for brewing you're using nearly pure water. You need to re-build the salts in the water, not just for the pH of the mash, but also for healthy yeast growth.

 

[BeerCat]

Thanks for the help guys its indeed confusing at first. I did read the other thread Corvich started and many more until i had to give up and go get a cold beer.
Looks like i need to get some additives then. Can i get them from a homebrew shop or can i go to the chemist? In the meantime i have bought some aldi spring water which i am mixing with mine.
I have to say though the beers i have conditioned for a month no longer taste thin. Pretty decent as it goes. Anyway gonna read this again and take some notes. Cheers

 

[clibit]

What yeast(s) do you use Beercat?

 

[BeerCat]

Only used GV12 so far for my AG. The kits i used whatever they came with.

 

[MyQul]

I've bought an alkalinity test kit and some acid from brupaks to adjust my water but I've now decided I can't be arsed with the amount of reading needed and faff of it so am just going to stick with making the styles of beer that suit London water for now - Porter, Stout and Mild. Fortunately for me those are my favourite styles. The only beers that I'll stop making are bitters.