Victorian Porter

[JeffDragon7]

Pretty much, yes.

If you're interested in the history it's worth checking out the ramblings of Martyn Cornell ("Amber, Gold & Black" is with a read) and Ron Pattinson (@patto1ro on here) (this article for example).

Stout simply means strong. So as well as stout porter I believe stout pale ale was also a thing.

Once you get into it you'll see that at some point in history there was "mild" (= young) and "stale" (= old or aged) porter.

Also worth a listen is the "Brew Strong" podcast 10th Feb 2021 where Martyn Cornell take about the history of porter

Thanks, I’ll check those out

 

[Edd The Brew]

How Do All,
Here's another cracking Porter from 1884 for the cognoscenti to have a go at
Cheers
Edd
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2021/05/w-b-mew-langton-co-porter-1884.html

 

[peebee]

Here's another cracking Porter from 1884 for the cognoscenti to have a go at

But another a bit like the Beamish and Crawford one you posted earlier. But this time only 14 IBU! What is going on with these provincial breweries? I know they were generally leaner on ingredients than the big-boys Ron cracks on about, but these are really "Ale" level hopping rates?

Are they reacting to the switching of preferences away from Porter to X-Ales and such-like?

 

[Edd The Brew]

But another a bit like the Beamish and Crawford one you posted earlier. But this time only 14 IBU! What is going on with these provincial breweries? I know they were generally leaner on ingredients than the big-boys Ron cracks on about, but these are really "Ale" level hopping rates?

Are they reacting to the switching of preferences away from Porter to X-Ales and such-like?

Ey Up Peebee ,
Ah , now for the fun part .
Mild = A beer matured for a relatively short time so that it's perfectly possible if you understand Victorian era Trade description of beers to have a Mild Ale, Bitter Beer or indeed a Porter.
On the change in drinking habits , I'd say probably not, as the W B Mew Langton 4 d ( Mild Ale ) was brewed with a greater frequency than the Porters they made ( Porter , Gibraltar Porter and Export Porter) .
In general I'd say that it's inter dependant on a few factors such as
Local industry within a given period ,and the producing brewer's target markets
( Home, Export etc ) as to the decline and fall of Porter and the ascendancy to mass popularity of Milds , be they
Mild Ales or Mild Bitter Beers ,
Cheers
Edd

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If you're interested in the history it's worth checking out the ramblings of Martyn Cornell ("Amber, Gold & Black" is with a read)

Also worth a listen is the "Brew Strong" podcast 10th Feb 2021 where Martyn Cornell take about the history of porter

Martyn's just about to release what should be the definitive history of porter so has been doing the media rounds in recent weeks, the video of the Brew Strong interview is here (takes a few minutes to get to the point) :

 

[peebee]

Oh aye, the "4 d" stuff. "Four penny" (= Mild Ale) if like me you ignore that it's written "4 d" not "4d"!

The "4 d" stuff is from the same year as the porter too. And it's stronger! Perhaps the "Porter" was the 3d a quart option.

 

[peebee]

I'm meditating on beery issues on Jim's forum at the moment, so expect me to come back with a rash of ideas later. Meanwhile, I'm getting ready to brew my next "Whitbread's Porter". This one compiled from the brewery records by Ron Pattinson:

1st Aug 1849
OG1060.4 FG1018.6
pale malt=77.28% brown malt=19.76% black malt=2.96%

Pattinson, Ronald. Porter! (Mega Book Series) (Kindle Locations 19115-19122). Kilderkin. Kindle Edition.

"Brown malt" is ready "constructed" as in earlier post (modern stuff on left for comparison):

About 60 IBU of hops. I'll probably hold back the black malt until last 15 mins of mash. 26.5 batch, full-boil-volume-mash.

 

[matt76]

Martyn's just about to release what should be the definitive history of porter

Yeah, I Tweeted him after I listened to the podcast to ask about the title and release date but never got a response

 

[matt76]

I'll probably hold back the black malt until last 15 mins of mash

I don't get why people do this. I mean, I know exactly why people do it, I just don't get why you would set about making a dark beer and then actively try to avoid the associated dark flavours - it would be simpler to add food colouring!

 

[peebee]

I don't get why people do this. I mean, I know exactly why people do it, I just don't get why you would set about making a dark beer and then actively try to avoid the associated dark flavours - it would be simpler to add food colouring!

That's what I'm doing! (It's food - beer - colouring). But people decided they liked the flavour, so added some more. I don't like it, but I don't like the clinical taste of cold steeped black malt either. I want a half-way house. I'd have possibly voted Liberal Democrat the other day (half way house, but they'll never get all the way), if I could have been bothered to vote at all (possibilities weren't inspiring).

Perhaps I should work on finding black malt I do like? I'm on Crisp's at moment; I do know it is pretty variable 'tween maltsters, but once you've got some it lasts for ages.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yeah, I Tweeted him after I listened to the podcast to ask about the title and release date but never got a response ☹

I have half an unreliable memory of June being mentioned, but don't quote me - it's a brave man that makes any hard plans at the moment!!!

 

[itry]

I really like the idea of this!

 

[Edd The Brew]

How Do All,
Here's the EXPORT Porter of W B Mew Langton & Co ,
Enjoy
Edd
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2021/05/w-b-mew-langton-co-export-porter-1884.html

 

[peebee]

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Whoops! Graph is slightly wrong, so I'll just put that right. If anyone has used it (like me!) no real issue; in fact the correction might be an issue if using the emulated brown malt as 100% of the malt bill.

As I marked in the lower coloured malts I appear to have started reading the increments as 15EBC instead of 30. So to correct that I've squeezed up the low colour malts, shifted the peak of the curve back, and introduced Amber Malt to fill the gap, like so:

Slight issue if you use the emulation as 100%: The diastatic power may not be enough to self convert? I'm working on it, but for now I'd recommend an extended mash.

Remember, "real" brown malt was abandoned because it wasn't able to produce as much extract as pale malt. Which leads to another issue: If diastatic power is found wanting and adjusted, will that mean using the emulation will result in less colour and flavour? Or will accepting some inability to convert will result in the right colour and flavour but will be murky due to unconverted starch?

 

[peebee]

Some tweaks, but still marginal diastatic power - don't mash <2 hours if using 100%. At least the emulation is acting as would be expected! Now to put it to use, but as the emulated brown malt is only used as 20% of the intended recipe's grain bill, there will be no problem converting it.

 

[peebee]

After two or three weeks immersed in more British history, kings and queens, than I'd ever bothered to absorb during several years at school, I'm finally homing in on a recipe for my next historical "porter" (What, still? This is filling in time while parts of my "brewery" is being relocated). The problem has been trying to tie down the ingredients and how to best emulate them. I'd already figured the "brown malt" used would have been "traditionally" kilned, not the uniformly "modern" kilned malt so often used in these recipes. The means of "modern" kilning (rotating cylinder, indirectly heated, kilns) had been around since 1817 for creating black malt (as a colourant) but when did it become commonly used for brown malt? And pale malt for that matter? This I could not resolve clearly, but by mid-19th century (by when British porter had begun its descent into oblivion) I believe it's okay to assume "traditionally" kilned brown malt, and perhaps "traditionally" kilned pale malt, was still used.

Is it important? There are those who've made the ubiquitous "Durden Park Beer Circle's 1850 Whitbread London Porter" who should know it is. But there'll also be those who wont realise it (and probably don't believe it's important) because without a decent comparison with an 18th century porter (guaranteed to be originally made from 100% traditionally kilned brown malt) how would they know just how good porter can be?

 

[peebee]

I'm sticking with the 1849 Whitbread porter recipe Ron Pattinson had dug out:

1st Aug 1849
OG1060.4 FG1018.6
pale malt=77.28% brown malt=19.76% black malt=2.96%

Pattinson, Ronald. Porter! (Mega Book Series) (Kindle Locations 19115-19122). Kilderkin. Kindle Edition.

It will make a fine comparison with the "Durden Park Beer Circle's 1850 Whitbread London Porter" recipe. Hops? Well they are specified as "2.96 Pounds per Barrel" which works out as 8.2 grams per Litre. The "IBUs" of the hops would be useful, 5IBUs is often quoted but some believe it must have been less? I'll use 2019 Goldings (Victorian UK was not self-sufficient in hops, nor grain, so using Continental, or even American, hops is not wrong) which originally had IBUs over 5% but after running through a hop age calculator come out 3.7IBUs: I'll use these gram for gram with the 8.2g/L suggestion. That'll be a porter at 65IBUs which seems about right for these things. Aging porters was beginning to die off by this time so 4-6 months is enough aging, and no Brett (although some aging, vatting, was continuing at Whitbread if you want to give it a go).

How Do All,
Here's the EXPORT Porter of W B Mew Langton & Co ,
Enjoy
Edd
https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2021/05/w-b-mew-langton-co-export-porter-1884.html

Looks a fine alternative! Although I prefer the look of one @Edd The Brew posted earlier in this year:

https://oldbeersandbrewing.blogspot.com/2021/03/w-b-mew-langton-co-ltd-gibraltar-porter.html

The same brewery and year(ish) as the "Export Porter" . But Edd mentions a possible military connection with "Gibraltar Porter", perhaps it's a so-called "contract porter"? The military are always stuck in their ways (unless its a new way of killing people) so unlike other late 19th century porters it doesn't suffer too badly from the decline of Porter at that time. Only 2% black malt too! (That's a plus in my book). But is the brown malt "traditionally" kilned or "modern" kilned? It becomes a difficult question to answer again for late 19th century recipes (in early 20th century all "traditional" kilns were gone - too expensive, impossible even, to insure such a fire hazard).

 

[peebee]

Where I'm up to with the emulated brown malt: Introduce a little bit of smoke (not much, the drinkers didn't like it and the maltsters tried to keep it minimal):

The graph information was crunched into table form and somewhat explains the use of column sizes in the histogram "bins" (or bar graph's "bars" - a histogram is a clever bar graph). Go easy with the precision, it's a bit extreme for practical application! I was calculating the approximate "diastatic (enzyme) power", but that's only for using 100% and "30.1" might be considered rather low (but the real deal was probably lower, which is why they started substituting with some pale malt).

And I've included emulated pale malt because the historical stuff was kilned like the brown malt early on, until the rotating kilns (designed for the black malt) came in for more universal usage. Having included an emulated pale malt also lets me rehash the mix I've already started to build (photo a few posts back).

Hopefully I've already explained the choice of Munich and Crystal malts in the emulations?

 

[peebee]

My "1849 Whitbread porter" recipe based on what Ron Pattinson had dug up (alternative to DPBC's 1850 recipe that I couldn't verify; did not like, and felt was suspiciously "mis-recorded") finally got casked/kegged yesterday. It's had a rocky journey getting this far (brewed a month ago).

I was using a Grainfather which failed to handle the hop quota (pump blocked). The GF had to be emptied with a jug! And alternative cooling organised before pitching (S-33 dried yeast, I can't be bothered with liquid yeasts for poky "GF" sized batches). Then fermentation "stuck" at 1.027 and seemingly didn't respond much to rousing and pitching with the more aggressive S-04 yeast. I discovered I'd only mashed for 45 minutes at 67C rather than the intended 75 minutes (Chevallier barley malt needs the more careful handling - this was obviously the reason for the "stuck" ferment). Then over a week later when I was getting ready to cask/keg, it did respond. It took another week to ferment down and went way past intended FG of 1.018-19 and finished up 1.011. The S-04 had obviously taken hold giving a very untypical (historically) 80% apparent attenuation.

At the moment smokiness seems a little high based on new information (for me) about smokiness in the 19th Century. And "caramel" flavours lower than my earlier Porter attempts (but perhaps more in line with the "new information").

I used the "brown malt" emulation from my modified Excel based grist calculator:

Which has more flexibility with "smokiness" and "caramel flavours" (Recipe 1 in the next):

The spreadsheet really needs updating so as to have the "curve" information and "bin size" judgements included (this information is currently manually transferred from my Visio drawings. The spreadsheet can be downloaded here: <Historical Malt Emulations (Excel)> and I'll keep it up-to-date should I change the "curve" details.

The "new information" suggests smokiness was increased into the 19th Century, but must have decreased again as rotating cylinder kilns became more used (for other than Black Malt) by mid-19th Century. Whitbread would have most certainly been an early adopter of this practice.

Other brews with these emulations are in the pipeline (I've already got the "Cobb & Co Amber Small Beer" ready for drinking, one of @Cwrw666 favourites, and "William Black's Brown Stout" to be brewed very soon, a choice inspired by @An Ankoù activities, both are DPBC researched recipes. But they'll need a new thread to write up in … they're late Georgian!

 

[peebee]

Oh, I didn't mention, the Porter I just casked is brown, not black. As it should be for historical accuracy!