Urine test

[megajester]

You would be amazed how many professions have random drug testing, so why not the unemployed. If the goverment was handing out free Christmas bonus for people who worked the unemployed would be complaining that they have been left out. Drug testing for the unemployed so they are not treated differently, if thats what they want "not to be treated differently".

 

[commsbiff]

*cb ducks*

 

[TheMumbler]

I have never been drug tested in any of the places that I have worked. Perhaps I am wrong about this, but my experience of work makes me think that most are not expected to take regular drug tests in their workplace. When drug tests are required it is usually, as I understand it, for a good reason (such as safety). I would very surprised if the majority of the working population of this country were subjected to random drug testing. I think you would have to substantiate your claim that the reason that people don't work is because they are sitting around drinking and smoking dope instead of looking for work if you want to bring in testing of that nature. I mean a causal relationship here, not just a correlation or anecdote. Otherwise you are just persecuting a group of people based upon blind prejudice and encouraging others to do likewise.

The issue here is whether people are unfairly claiming benefits when they have the possibility of working or even worse if they are working and are claiming benefits. Whether the unemployed are drinking or taking drugs is neither here nor there so long as they are not screwing the system and are genuinely doing their best to find gainful employment as far as I can see it. It is certainly no more important than whether the population at large, who are not, unless I am very wide of the mark, generally subjected to drugs testing on a regular basis, do it.

For the record I have no issue with people being expected to demonstrate that they are really looking for work. I have no issue with people being expected to undertake training or do some kind of community work if they have been claiming for a long period and are able to train/work. I agree that the intention of the welfare state is help people when they need it, not to give a free ride to one group at the expense of another. However marginalising any group on the basis of hearsay and prejudice is a slippery slope best not stepped onto IMO.

 

[Frisp]

Eee I feel the urge to rant into this. My work takes me right into the middle of this argument, and my views are based on fact, what I see, hear, smell, feel and touch. Im not influenced by the editor of the Sun, or a gaggle of people making their views up as a group convincing themselves their view of the world is the right one.
However Im not going to say **** on the subject.

Cause

Im here to talk beer, talk hop sniffin, wort worries and probe why it is that beer seems to turn me into a Sex god 3 times a week etc etc.
Hail to the Ale

 

[leondz]

You would be amazed how many professions have random drug testing, so why not the unemployed. If the goverment was handing out free Christmas bonus for people who worked the unemployed would be complaining that they have been left out. Drug testing for the unemployed so they are not treated differently, if thats what they want "not to be treated differently".

My mum's unemployed because of a congenital disability, I take exception to your request for her to regularly urinate in front of a council worker! Which is pretty much what this comes down to. It's an expensive activity that degrades a lot of people who are already pretty pissed off with their situation.

I agree that benefit fraud is a problem, but this isn't the solution. That said I've no problem with testing anyone getting a bonus at RBS this year, and giving their bonus to the state if they fail! :)

 

[llannige]

I too would have to face the possibility of this disgusting and criminal suggestion.
There seems to be a lot of far right Daily Heil type crap being spewed out here.
Until a serious illness a couple of years ago,I was fit and healthy with a good work record.I never thought I would be in the position I am today.But thanks to our National Health Service and some great back up by other support groups it made things a lot easier for my family and myself.
Nobody should make comments on those receiving benefit without knowing the full story.
Take those planks out of your own ******* eyes first.

 

[Wez]

It’s fair to say that everyone is going to have a different view on this subject. If the subject is going to be debated here please do so without offending other members, if any members are already offended then I offer THBF’s apologies.

We don’t like to close threads here, if it continues please keep this debate on friendly terms and in line with our forum rules, that way we won’t have to close it.

Thanks.

 

[llannige]

Sorry Wez if I have offended you.

I feel VERY offended by some of the **** being spewed here.I made a statement very early on in the thread,then said that would be it.
But I had to make another comment.

I will keep out of it now and let others continue to rant on.

 

[Wez]

My comment wasn't aimed at you LL, just don't want the thread to spiral out of control.

 

[megajester]

Well it was a healthy debate then someone has to kick off using foul language (which offends me) but know one has ever die or been physically hurt from being offended and I'm a big boy now. So as the topic has lowered to a level which I could be sworn at for saying my piece I refrain from posting on this topic in fear of being offended and intimidated by the use of strong language.

:

 

[TheMumbler]

I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything offensive here. That certainly wasn't my intention. Feel free to PM me if you do have any complaints. I had issues with the original post which I felt I should air. I've done that, and I think I've made clear arguments. Not everybody agrees with me. Fair enough.

Probably best to concentrate on what we have in common. :

 

[CptnCrackoff]

I cant really see this post going anywhere positive..

However, i should point out, i have no problems whatsoever with people that genuinely cant work, or cant find work. Idont have time for those that can but dont want to. I dont believe that benefit frauds do any good for society or for those genuine people. We all no that with the state of the country ATM there are very few jobs for those that need or want them.

Although my political views are centre right (ish) i believe the benefits system in this country to be a generally good thing.
In the past i have claimed housing benefit, council tax releif, my girlfriend claimed incapacity benefit when she was ill for several months whilst pregnant, and to this day i claim tax credits.I now count myself very fortunate that i have a safe, secure job that pays enough to keep a roof over our heads.

LL - i hope you havnt took offence to anything i have said, you have openly said that you are unable to work, i beleve that totally and think that no-one on the forum has, or would be justified in saying otherwise.

For what its worth (not much i know) i dont think alcohol testing for the unemployed is a good idea.

I very much doubt that just because someone hasnt got a job they like their beer any less!! :

I think i'mnow done with this thread.

lets all chill out and have a :drink:

jon

 

[leondz]

We all no that with the state of the country ATM there are very few jobs for those that need or want them.

hear hear

I think i'mnow done with this thread.

lets all chill out and have a :drink:

hear hear! :drink:

 

[streamer13]

Oh dear, It's all petered out and just when I thought we were going to see the jackets off. Why don't they all appear on Question time with the BNP.
Well I suppose it's back to the beer now. And why not. Well wine actually.
I'm retired next year. Does this mean I'll have to get a urine test before they pay out my old age pension? Maybe the rig man should right to Gordon Brown and ask for taxes to be put onto home made beer and wine. After all he is having to spend so long on the rigs he will have to pay the full taxes on his pint as well because he won't have time to make it.
Poor soul.

 

[CptnCrackoff]

.. it appears i am not done with this thread after all...

I wouldnt say it has petered out, i would say personally that i would rather agree to disagree on certain points rather than cause arguments (which often spiral out of control on forums!!) that can be avoided.

Everyone wont agree with everyone else when there is such a vast array of different people on the forum. My opinions matter no more than yours or anyone elses, i have no right to force them on you or anyone else.

I dont believe the thread has really anything to do with political persuasion, the question is something along the lines of 'is drink/drug testing a good idea for people to recieve benefits'?

Most people appear to say No.

If your suggestion that 'they all appear on question time with the BNP' was meant to include myself, then i would say with no guilt or shame that i agree with Nick Griffin's stance on asylum, NOT on making britain whites only, christians only etc etc..
I have also agreed with Gordon Brown and the Labour Party on other issues,even the Greens have one or two good ideas!!


I said i dont agree with people falsely claiming benefits, that doesnt automatically make me a nazi.

 

[commsbiff]

Miscommunication & misunderstanding.
- It is my opinion that the original post is a bit of a rant with some intended humour.
- I believe that the OP has an issue with with paying taxes to give money to dossers and druggies, as I believe most people on this forum do / would do.
- I also believe that the OP does not has an issue in paying taxes that go towards the support of people who need it (eg some of our forum members), again I feel that is a widely shared belief on this forum.

I think the main bone of contention is the suggestion that all people who claim any form of benefits should take part in compulsory drug testing. I originally thought that this comment was made in jest, but now think that this comment is most likely to have been made due to the temper of the person making it at the time and has just not been well thought through. I don't recall anyone agreeing with this particular point.

We now seem to have 2 sides of arguments, due to people picking parts of the OP to respond to. Side (A) saying 'don't be stupid, you can't expect these people to take urine tests' and side (B) saying 'we don't like paying for dossers and druggies'. I think these are 2 seperate arguments, and if they were argued one at a time, we would most likely all agree.

I like to think we're all on the same team, :

 

[megajester]

CB you would be brilliant in a hostage situation, best post ever :

 

[streamer13]

Please understand that I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet.

So what our friend from the rigs is saying is we should only help the ones who are genuinely in need.

I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their arse drinking beer and smoking dope.

So here he is saying he doesn't want to help people to remain addicted and not seek any help.
The government are already spending our taxes on just that.
The situation is a mess and there I agree with the rig man because there is no accountability. So what he is really saying is that he resents anyone who is out of work and scrounging off the state. Well we have to agree with him there too.
I’m afraid I have to agree with him all the way because random drug testing should be open to all members of society. We can all cause accidents from driving cars to turning up to work in an unfit state from substance abuse be it drinks or drugs. We are already breathalysed if found driving erratically. Why should the Job Centre not randomly test for drugs and alcohol abuse and refer people to clinics. Then they would end up costing the system more money to treat but if the treatment was successful then we might see them back on jobseekers allowance again and actively seeking work. Can you not see the folly in it all? We are paying people to become unemployable. Some people see it as a no win situation but when we consider that these people could as easily turn to crime then it is probably the better of the two evils. Where we really need to improve all round is in educating our children of the dangers of addiction and also by treating addicts more effectively. It would be easy to think there was an easy solution to the problem but unfortunately it will only get worse. It's going to be an interesting election next year. I can't see any of the parties though coming up with a solution to the rising dependency on state benefits. Nobody would vote for someone who spoke the truth about what needs to be done. They would sound like a fascist.
Terry Thomas used to say what Britain needs is a fascist for a few years to clean up the mess, then we could just shoot him.
:drink: real ale and good wine and leave the politics to the politicians :