Universal basic income

[Clint]

...is it any different now, just called something else....money for nothing and your chips for free....

 

[MyQul]

...is it any different now, just called something else....money for nothing and your chips for free....

Free chips! Now that's a thought. Nom,nom

 

[GerritT]

Every system has its abusers.

 

[Gunge]

Every system has its abusers.

And every abuser has a system!

 

[stevey]

So, me and her indoors are stuck on 2 grand a month (which isn't much less than what we're working for). Our kids are rolling in it because all they need to do is push out a rugrat a year 10 kids = 10 grand + plus the parents 1 or 2 grand (depending on whether it's worth being a couple).
I'd retire and stop buying xmas and birthday presents.
Where do I sign up?

 

[GerritT]

So, me and her indoors are stuck on 2 grand a month (which isn't much less than what we're working for). Our kids are rolling in it because all they need to do is push out a rugrat a year 10 kids = 10 grand + plus the parents 1 or 2 grand (depending on whether it's worth being a couple).
I'd retire and stop buying xmas and birthday presents.
Where do I sign up?

It's not far from the counter where you renounce your dignity.

 

[simon12]

The petrol suppliers could pay to maintain our roads. They are the ones profiting from it.

It would just have the same effect as increasing petrol tax (no idea on the numbers but I bet it easily covers money spent on roads and alot more) as the cost would just be put onto petrol at the pump. Fuel is a low margin product people/companies only get rich due to volume.

 

[simon12]

Well, what did you do this morning? Unless it was your day off you probably went to work and unless you love going to work, it was because you had to not because you wanted to. You may have a mortgage, credit cards, car payments and other unsecured loans. You have to pay these off, if you dont your creditors will be coming after you. Depending on how much debt you have will more than likely decide how much free time you have. If you've got loads of debt you may be taking overtime to to pay off your debt.

What if the universal income became a reality? You would have more options and choices. You could have the same amount of debt but not have to work so hard because you've got that monthly cushion each month. If you wanted you could be really frugal and not bother working at all. Another option if you wanted.

Most people are eithe cash rich and time poor (because they're working hard to earn all that wonga) or time rich and cash poor (lots of free time but their not working a lot to earn money). Very few people are cash rich and time rich ,usually the richest in society. There are some unlucky ones who are both time poor and cash poor, usually the poorest.

If people had the universal credit we would be a lot more time rich then we are now as the state would be paying us for our time rather than having to go and earn money during that same time.
And what would people do with that time? Well anything they like really. Work has a physical and psychological toll. How do you feel after an 8 hour day plus commute? I'm assuming quite tired? But imagine if you werent as tired? What would you be doing? what would you be thinking? I know more people would be more politically engaged for example. Thinking about why they like or dislike what the government of the day is doing and because they had more time, doing something about it.

We are also all encouraged to work hard and take on lots of debt so we can have stuff. But this stuff, and by extension the debt is a millstone around our necks. What if we want to randomly take time off work? We can't because we have to pay it off our debt. Or just jack our job in? We cant because we have to pay off our debt. You're much less likely to do anything that rocks the boat in case your risk your job and therefore everything you've purchased with your debt. I think there's a reason why some people say debt is slavery

I never thought of it in that way, I just assumed most people would carry on working the same hours with UBI. So would you be for the idea if the numbers worked?

 

[simon12]

What about the pull for new arrivals into Europe from across the Med?
Imagine a young uneducated man living in Nigeria or Morocco and hearing about how in England they pay you �£1000 a month to sit on your arse all day!

As stated you would only get it if you are a UK citizen. It would make the UK less appealing to those who want to work as they get no tax allowance and those who don't there are no benefits at all.

 

[MyQul]

I never thought of it in that way, I just assumed most people would carry on working the same hours with UBI. So would you be for the idea if the numbers worked?

Yes, If it could somehow be made to work because I think it could would be a real leveller between the the richest and poorest in society

 

[simon12]

There are many posts which make me think my £1000 is to high but I don't think its feasible any lower maybe £500 for under 18s. I never thought it was a great idea but now I think its terrible. Thanks for all your input please continue or call it a day not that thats for me to say anyway.

 

[Dexter101]

Human beings should be able to live. Man has the ability to look after themselves by growing food, building shelter and socialising. We have developed a society where none of these things are able to happen. Even if i wanted to go back to basics, i would have to work hard to buy land from someone else making the whole idea unlikely.

Along with universal income i would like to see every person given a plot of land to live on.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Think myqul has that covered.
Chippy tea close the thread please before someone starts a row....

All mods have the ability to close threads, delete threads/posts and ban members, if it gets out of hand later i am sure one will be on hand to deal with it.

 

[aamcle]

To each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities. Good old Commies shame it didn't work and that it never will.

Unless you think we are getting a nirvana thing with robots doing it all, who's doing the work and why should they be bothered?

Earn more live better! it would have to be a LOT better and then there would be the cry - They are getting too much!! We the unproductive majority want a bigger share!! it's our right!!(1) and we have the vote ......

Not that it's going to happen, the rich those that own the robots will just get richer and we the huddled masses will just have to huddle a bit faster. We should be duly grateful for the inestimable privalage of being allowed to look at their magnificence and even breath the same air.

If the masses are not needed to support the lifestyles and decadent opulence of the powerful/rich then they can be seen as a nuisance to be disposed of or just thrown away. That's right up to the time they chop the tree down, woops no axes and full time surveillance via AI's so there will be no revolution.

We are moving into dangerous times it is possible now or soon will be for the state to monitor and control our lives in ways and to an extent never before conceived, and who's got the controls? The Illuminati, Thatcher spawn or Diane Abbot??

Depressingly I'm not sure which would be worse


aamcle.


1, just think of those we see every day claiming their right to this that or the other usually at someone else's expense.

 

[Dutto]

Sounds like another way to encourage dependency on the state. Imagine if the UK were the first to start this.

Apparently, Finland have already started.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/31/finland-universal-basic-income

It's something that I have been hearing about since the 1970's when the powers that be were forecasting a ten hour week and a massive increase in "leisure time".

There's absolutely no reason why it couldn't work.

People don't like being "idle" but, under the current system, people on "state benefits" are punished if they take up any kind of paid work.

Under this system, all people are able to work, indulge in their hobbies or volunteer for charity work as they choose, in the knowledge that they have an income that will fulfil their basic needs.

"Right Wingers" are forever banging on about the presence of "benefits scroungers" and "people not entitled to state benefits". This system nullifies their objections so they should support it wholeheartedly. :whistle:

 

[Dutto]

To each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities. Good old Commies shame it didn't work and that it never will. .....

It is actually a Socialist doctrine.

Please don't confuse Socialism with Communism; their philosophies are totally different. :thumb:

 

[aamcle]

It is actually a Socialist doctrine.

Please don't confuse Socialism with Communism; their philosophies are totally different. :thumb:

Right you are then, I stand corrected.

People don't like being "idle" but, under the current system, people on "state benefits" are punished if they take up any kind of paid work.

With a basic income they could be doing voluntary/charity work to fill their time and to have a fulfilling purpose in fact they can now to a large extent.

Mmmm do something for nothing or watch the Kardashians, I wonder who's pregnant this week?


aamcle

 

[Dutto]

.........

Mmmm do something for nothing or watch the Kardashians, I wonder who's pregnant this week?

.......

Who or what are "The Kardashians"? They sound like some alien beings off Star Trek! :thumb:

Oh, sorry, just been told by SWMBO.

Apparently they are a family of "Celebrities". i.e. someone who becomes famous in their own lunchtime? :lol: :lol:

 

[simon12]

It is actually a Socialist doctrine.

Please don't confuse Socialism with Communism; their philosophies are totally different. :thumb:

Sorry if this is over critical but the full quote from marx reads
"In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"
It was previously said by some socialists and also is in the bible Acts 4:35 "And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

 

[BeerCat]

Sounds a sensible idea. Why doesnt that happen now though?

It could if they had the will. They do not have the will though.