Understanding water report and first steps into water treatment

[madoIII]

Hi all,

I am on my 6th all grain brew now. Over the last few months I've gradually taken different steps to improve my brews: I got myself an Ace Microbrery, worked on fermentation temperature control, added Campden tablets, improved my efficiency, and generally tried to learn about the process.

I have brewed the same pale ale recipe a few times and my last try was an oatmeal stout. The latter turned out quite nice. The pale is certainly drinkable but far from perfect.

I know I have got some issues with fermentation: it usually takes a day and a half for it to start. I keep the yeast in the fridge until a few hours before brewing, I rehydrate it (using dry yeast at the minute), I give the wort a good shake and I pitch at 19C-20C. But something is not quite right.

However, this post is about water treatment.

I brew with London tap water, known for its high alkalinity (around 240ppm) which in theory is not ideal for pale ales. I'd like to start simple, adjusting alkalinity and calcium.

Following the directions from http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=64822 and in particular the example about brewing a Pale Ale with high alkalinity water, the steps seems to be:
- get a report from Thames Water - I downloaded one from their website (see attachment), but I can't find Calcium???
- get a Salifert KH test kit (£10)
- use CRS to reduce alkalinity (other options exist, but this seems to be an easy one that fits my use case)
- get something to measure mash PH
- add gypsum (need to check if it is needed, good for hop flavour accentuation)

Any further thoughts?

Cheers,
Enrique

View attachment WQ Report_Z0373_Holloway.zip

 

[henteaser]

I brew with London tap water, known for its high alkalinity (around 240ppm) which in theory is not ideal for pale ales. I'd like to start simple, adjusting alkalinity and calcium.

...get a report from Thames Water - I downloaded one from their website (see attachment), but I can't find Calcium???

The "hardness" is a measurement of calcium carbonate in solution aka CaCO3. CaCO3 of 270 ppm converts to 108 ppm calcium.

Some handy tools to get you started;

- The Bru'n Water https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/
- Brewing Water Chemistry Calculator https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/
- Water hardness http://www.lenntech.com/ro/water-hardness.htm

 

[henteaser]

use CRS to reduce alkalinity (other options exist, but this seems to be an easy one that fits my use case)

Although easy, before pumping your beer full of buffers and costly chemicals, maybe consider some of the "natural" methods;

- Brew dark beers! Dunkels, BIPAs, stouts etc.
- For pale beers, use a % bottled water to dilute your source water
- Use acidulated malt

Unless you really must brew that light pilsner with your own tap water, I'd exhaust these options first.

 

[madoIII]

The "hardness" is a measurement of calcium carbonate in solution aka CaCO3. CaCO3 of 270 ppm converts to 108 ppm calcium.

I see, thanks!

So the only (important) thing missing from the report would be alkalinity. I understand that hardness is not the same. But that's why I will be getting the Salifert kit, right?

 

[madoIII]

Although easy, before pumping your beer full of buffers and costly chemicals, maybe consider some of the "natural" methods;

Stouts are my favorite style and I will be quite happy to brew them without any extra additions. However variety is important, not everyone likes dark beers.

I appreciate your comments though, I did think about the whole brewing without chemicals thing. Which is one of the reasons I started brewing. But tap water already comes with chemicals and I can buy enough gypsum and CRS for many brews for under a tenner. Looks like a small investment and I am keen to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks!

 

[henteaser]

I see, thanks!

So the only (important) thing missing from the report would be alkalinity. I understand that hardness is not the same. But that's why I will be getting the Salifert kit, right?

Kind of. Your alkalinity is your CaCO3 figure. What's missing from your report is the pH.

Think of alkalinity as how resistant your water will be to changing its pH when you add acid.

You can have alkaline water (e.g pH 9) but a low alkalinity (less acid needed to change) and vice versa.

 

[Saisonator]

CRS is not always the best for reducing alkalinity because it increases sulphate and chloride and can leave the beer tasting minerally especially after extra additions of extra gypsum or calcium chloride to get the ration correct
My water's alkalinity is 195 ppm and I found to get it where I want it for a pale ale or lager, for a 23litres use an average of 32litres of water total.
I treat 20 litres of tap water with lactic acid and use 12 litres of Tesco Ashbeck.
Not saying it's perfect, but it's the best I have done so far, with my limited knowledge.

 

[madoIII]

CRS is not always the best for reducing alkalinity because it increases sulphate and chloride and can leave the beer tasting minerally especially after extra additions of extra gypsum or calcium chloride to get the ration correct
My water's alkalinity is 195 ppm and I found to get it where I want it for a pale ale or lager, for a 23litres use an average of 32litres of water total.
I treat 20 litres of tap water with lactic acid and use 12 litres of Tesco Ashbeck.
Not saying it's perfect, but it's the best I have done so far, with my limited knowledge.

The Beginners Guide to Water Treatment says: "As for CRS, it is more flavour neutral [than lactic acid] so can be used in higher quantities"

 

[Saisonator]

The Beginners Guide to Water Treatment says: "As for CRS, it is more flavour neutral [than lactic acid] so can be used in higher quantities"

That's why I use 12 litres of mineral water, it keeps the lactic acid edition below the taste threshold, but it does not increase sulphate and chloride levels.
To get 240 ppm water to below 20 ppm will mean quite a lot of CRS and so quite high levels of sulphate and chloride being created.

 

[madoIII]

That's why I use 12 litres of mineral water, it keeps the lactic acid edition below the taste threshold, but it does not increase sulphate and chloride levels.
To get 240 ppm water to below 20 ppm will mean quite a lot of CRS and so quite high levels of sulphate and chloride being created.

Understood - thanks!

Do you also add gypsum? What do you use to work out how much lactic acid you need?

 

[Ajhutch]

CRS is more flavour neutral than lactic, but it also adds minerals, there's a table here: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=107

So once you've used the CRS to adjust your alkalinity, you will also need to account for the changes it has made to the Chloride and Sulphate.

Having read through the two stickied threads by @strange-steve I came to the conclusion that the Thames Water report (I live in SW London) didn't have the sufficient information on it. I tried talking to them on the phone and it was a total black hole! It's also my belief that the water that comes out of our taps in London varies quite significantly through the year or depending on recent weather. I can't provide any proof of this but there are times when I just find the tap water unpleasant to drink.

Personally I use bottled water to brew with now, as it is easy to understand (the label gives you values for calcium, chloride, sulphate and bicarbonate which can be converted to alkalinity), it is consistent and it is cheap enough that it doesn't make brewing too much more expensive. I just stick a few 5 litre bottles on the shopping orders which we get delivered anyway. Tesco Ashbeck is perfect, it's got a very low mineral content that you can build up. Sainsbury's Caledonian usually requires some reduction to alkalinity to make a pale beer but it's less than tap water would need.

 

[Ajhutch]

Understood - thanks!

Do you also add gypsum? What do you use to work out how much lactic acid you need?

Steve's threads have all the relevant numbers you'd need to do the adjustments. I used them to build a spreadsheet which I attached to post 46 of the Advanced thread http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71451&page=5

 

[foxbat]

Ashbeck's very good, and the values on the label do seem to reflect reality. I tested a bottle with the Ca & kH kits and with a pH meter and all results fell near enough to the numbers on the label for the difference to be my measurement error.

 

[trueblue]

Personally I would never trust a water authority report, they are very generic. It will cover a large area over possibly several months. I pay £25 and have mine tested each year.

 

[Simonh82]

As someone who only brews with London tap water and IMHO makes some fairly decent pale ales, I would say that you shouldn't be afraid of making water adjustments. I've never found the need to use bottled water, even with a local alkalinity of 190ppm CaCO3.

The Thames water report that you have doesn't contain everything you need. The figure for hardness is not the same as alkalinity. Hardness is a measure of the calcium/magnesium content of the water expressed as ppm CaCO3. The alkalinity of the water is not given in Thames water reports but confusingly, is often expressed as PPM CaCO3. The Salifert test kit allows you to test your water and get an accurate figure for alkalinity each time you brew. Having tested mine numerous occasions I've found it varies very little and now only test every few brews. Your local supply may be more variable so use the test kit to get a feel for it.

The Thames water report contain most of the rest of the information you need (sulphate, chloride, iron, sodium, nitrate). Calcium can be worked out with the formula [hardness as CaCO3=2.5Xcalcium + 4.1XMagnesium]. You have the figure for harness (270ppm) and magnesium (4.85) so your calcium works out at bang on 100ppm.

I paid for a water test from Murphy and Sons but it actually came back very similar to the water report from Thames water. The advantage was having the alkalinity figure there in plain writing but I still bought a test kit to check after that.


To throw another ball into the park when it comes to making acid additions, I use 75% phosphoric acid. It is cheaper than CRS and doesn't add sulphate or chloride to the water. It is also extremely flavour neutral, so you can easily mitigate the alkalinity of London water without approaching the flavour threshold. CRS is a good product but it is expensive and more dilute than 75% phosphoric acid, so whereas you might need 10ml of phosphoric, you might need 35ml of CRS. As it is more expensive to start with it just made more sense to me to use phosphoric.

I would recommend downloading the Bru'n'water spreadsheet (free basic version available) or if you pay $10 you get the up to date version which includes CRS as an acid option (if you go down that route). Your water profile looks very similar to mine, even though I am south of the river, I am sure you can brew great pale ales with it if you make a few tweeks.

 

[madoIII]

Interesting. My first brew was with Tesco Ashbeck but being my first brew I made quite a few mistakes during the process :mrgreen:

Online reports from different forums suggest that Tesco Ashbeck has low alkalinity (20ppm or so) - that would solve one issue. And as @Ajhutch said, one just need to add some gypsum. Again, online reports suggest 1 tsp of gyspsum in the mash and 1 in the boil. Of course I will check with one of the calculators/spreadsheets.

But it does mean that my shopping list could be different: Tesco Ashbeck, gypsum and ph testers. Which for the purpose of this exercise (I want to see if water treatment makes a significant difference or not in my process) sound easier/less intrusive.

Sources: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=44958#p473431

 

[madoIII]

Thanks @Simonh82!

 

[foxbat]

Interesting. My first brew was with Tesco Ashbeck but being my first brew I made quite a few mistakes during the process :mrgreen:

Online reports from different forums suggest that Tesco Ashbeck has low alkalinity (20ppm or so) - that would solve one issue. And as @Ajhutch said, one just need to add some gypsum. Again, online reports suggest 1 tsp of gyspsum in the mash and 1 in the boil. Of course I will check with one of the calculators/spreadsheets.

To help you I've attached my bru'n'water spreadsheet from my last brew, a simple bitter, that I brewed with Ashbeck. The target profile I went for was:

Ca: 79
Mg: 13
Na: 9
SO4: 126
Cl: 77

This required small additions of gypsum, calcium chloride and epsom salts added to the mash water (I do BIAB so the mash water is the bulk of it) . It might be easier if you start with a completed worksheet like this and fiddle with it instead of starting from zero.

View attachment brunwater.zip

 

[strange-steve]

Don't be scared of adjusting your tap water with CRS. Yes, at the amount you'll need it will add a significant amount of sulphate and chloride, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on what you're brewing. The worry of "over-mineralisation" seems to be something that's been picked up from US brewers, but many people here think it's nonsense.

 

[Ajhutch]

Ashbeck's very good, and the values on the label do seem to reflect reality. I tested a bottle with the Ca & kH kits and with a pH meter and all results fell near enough to the numbers on the label for the difference to be my measurement error.

Good to know :thumb: