UKIP has a new leader

[Saisonator]

I think you should judge their effectiveness by the impact of their one and only policy, when we start to feel it fully. When the economy tanks. When tax revenue falls. When the public sector is hawked off or deleted in swathes. When the NHS collapses. Then, and only then, can the wastrels and opportunist scoundrels who pitch themselves as UKIP (and we all know it is a one man band missing it's drummer) claim their legacy.

A Corbyn / Momentum Marxist government is the one most dangerous thing this country would have survive.

 

[dad_of_jon]

What have they achieved?

What have they done for working people?

without getting into war and peace you could argue their existence forced the conservatives into offering an in out referendum which is leading to brexit, so from their point of view they've achieved what they set out to do. I can't really see the point of them continuing unless brexit gets fudged so much they feel we're still not 'independant'

in that respect they appear to have given just over 50% of the people of the uk the result they wanted (at the time of course).

I personally think they will wither quite rapidly and most of those who voted for them will return to old alleigences

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

A Corbyn / Momentum Marxist government is the one most dangerous thing this country would have survive.

That may well be the case. But that wasn't the point of this thread, or my argument.

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

I thought al that was supposed to happen immediately ater we voted to leave.
Either way, all we ever hear from the remoaners who losft the ballot despite allowing foreigners who happen to live here to vote, allowing Brits who no longer live in Britain to vote, allowing Gibraltar to vote despite it not being part of the UK and conducting an entirely one sided campaign using public money is how terribly unfair it all was immediately followd by a predictable message:

How terribly inclusive.

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

in that respect they appear to have given just over 50% of the people of the uk the result they wanted (at the time of course).

Can't argue with any of that. But the impact is the thing....

Farage has delivered the rhetoric without the policy depth. He doesn't even have to be accountable for the outcome.

 

[LED_ZEP]

Why are we even still talking about this now irrelevant bunch of xenophobes. They achieved their one dimensional, Daily Mail manifesto without ever being voted in to government (I've got to say well done, how do you achieve the biggest political change this country has seen in 30 years without been voted in? Murdoch, the Russians and the right wing of the Conservative Party may have helped?)

Yes as a European I do feel doomed! Thanks UKIP for all you've done for this country, Europe and the West.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Can't argue with any of that. But the impact is the thing....

Farage has delivered the rhetoric without the policy depth. He doesn't even have to be accountable for the outcome.

regarding the impact.... i'm the guy in this advert...

 

[Gunge]

Thanks UKIP for all you've done for this country, Europe and the West.

I'll second that bit!

 

[LED_ZEP]

I'll second that bit!

Indeed it is so sad, possibly the death of the West as the usually cohesive force it's been since WWII. (I know you didn't mean to agree with my sentiment Gunge, but you included the emoji)

 

[Ken L]

How terribly inclusive.

The question on the ballot was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
You'll have to help me out here.
Why should people who are not citizens of the United Kingdom or resident in the United Kingdom get a vote on this question?
And what has this got to do with inclusivity?

 

[ElvisIsBeer]

The question on the ballot was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
You'll have to help me out here.
Why should people who are not citizens of the United Kingdom or resident in the United Kingdom get a vote on this question?
And what has this got to do with inclusivity?

I was making a broader (obtuse) point. The UK was split virtually down the middle in the referendum. It wasn't "a clear majority". The UK didn't give a clear mandate. It was an emotionally driven kneejerk vote in many cases (on both sides). It was a poorly judged folly, advisory and not directive in nature.

And what has that got to do with inclusivity? Well, it's when people lapse into 'remoaner' abuse. When they start talking about 'winning' or 'losing' the vote.

There is a solid majority of evidence and opinion, from the broadest and most diverse coalition of interests I've ever witnessed, all suggesting Brexit is a wrong-headed act of self-harm. In spite of this, i think if we had a referendum soon on the detail of a final deal, a large number of Brexit-positive individuals would double down without hesitation, simply because they feel they won something. Even if the evidence clearly demonstrated the harm it will do.

There is no plan for life after Brexit. None.

 

[Ken L]

I was making a broader (obtuse) point. The UK was split virtually down the middle in the referendum. It wasn't "a clear majority". The UK didn't give a clear mandate.

My point was that had this vote been limited to those affected by the outcome (the British who live in Britain), it would have been a much clearer majority.
Literally everything that could have been done to weigh the vote in favour of remain was done and you still lost by 1.3 million votes - and in England in particular, you lost by a good margin.

 

[Saisonator]

Why are we even still talking about this now irrelevant bunch of xenophobes. They achieved their one dimensional, Daily Mail manifesto without ever being voted in to government (I've got to say well done, how do you achieve the biggest political change this country has seen in 30 years without been voted in? Murdoch, the Russians and the right wing of the Conservative Party may have helped?)

Yes as a European I do feel doomed! Thanks UKIP for all you've done for this country, Europe and the West.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---

 

[jceg316]

The question on the ballot was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
You'll have to help me out here.
Why should people who are not citizens of the United Kingdom or resident in the United Kingdom get a vote on this question?

They may not have citizenship, but some non-UK citizens have been living in the UK for a long time contributing to the economy, long enough to have a say in whether the UK should remain or not. It's very difficult to get citizenship, it's not like you can just add it to your errands list. Some countries, like Japan for example, only allow their citizens to have Japanese citizenship only and can't have more than one.

 

[Thumper]

The "job" that the British public elected them for was to take Britain out of the EU.
We as a nation said "We don't want MEPs in Brussels and we don't want them voting".
UKIP MPs delivered.
UKIP winning the EU vote was however a necessary precursor to pressuring Cameron into offering a referendum.

They didn't need MEPs to accomplish that. It was a domestic referendum that did the job, and it always would have been.

I make no secret of the fact that I disagree with UKIP and with brexit. But I can (and do!) have a reasonable debate with someone who had a different opinion than me about the direction our country ought to take. It doesn't mean we need to be opponents on a personal level.

But I have no respect for people who take public money to do a job that they have no intention of doing. They're a bunch of crooks.

 

[Ken L]

I make no secret of the fact that I disagree with UKIP and with brexit. But I can (and do!) have a reasonable debate with someone who had a different opinion than me about the direction our country ought to take. It doesn't mean we need to be opponents on a personal level.

But I have no respect for people who take public money to do a job that they have no intention of doing. They're a bunch of crooks.

LOL.

 

[Ken L]

They may not have citizenship, but some non-UK citizens have been living in the UK for a long time contributing to the economy, long enough to have a say in whether the UK should remain or not. It's very difficult to get citizenship, it's not like you can just add it to your errands list. Some countries, like Japan for example, only allow their citizens to have Japanese citizenship only and can't have more than one.

So what?
It's the future of a country, a people and a culture that we're talking about here.
Johnny foreigner has no business having a say in the future of a nation.

 

[Thumper]

LOL.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Ken L]

Care to elaborate?

You don't want to attack people that you disagree with on a personal level and than call people that you disagree with a bunch of crooks.

 

[Brianbrewed]

You don't want to attack people that you disagree with on a personal level and than call people that you disagree with a bunch of crooks.

I think Thumper was talking about the UKIP MEP's who didn't take their seats in the European parliament in Brussels but took the money.