Trump on the NHS.

[Saisonator]

I remember when I was a kid, baby boomers like my parents, doing a standard working class job say in the building trade or at the Heathrow Airport. Could buy a good sized 3 bedroom house, raise two kids and the mother had the option to work part time if she felt like earning a bit of pocket money.
That same house would not be achievable even if both parents worked full time, they couldn't even earn half the money needed to get a mortgage on the place, let alone have time to raise two kids.
The baby boomers are the golden generation that lived through times of prosperity that I believe nobody will ever experience again, made possible by the previous generation of hero's who sacrificed so much.

 

[-Bezza-]

At least the beer is better these days...

 

[Saisonator]

At least the beer is better these days...

Yes that's true

 

[simon12]

Hey! Why "sadly"?

I agree that dementia is a terrible disease but many of us are happy to have reached "old age".

My particular generation can still remember when people who reached their "three score years and ten" were venerated and NOT seen as a drain on society.

The problem is NOT the fact that people are living longer it's that today's society is allowing the elderly and infirm to be demonised and made to feel bad.

Oh dear, the young are expected to look after the old. Well let me remind you all that this situation is not a new thing, it has been the norm since time began.

May I also point out the fact that the good life that the young in our society enjoy today has been provided by US and without what previous generations did for YOU the country would be an even bigger mess than it is now!

Things have to change and one of the changes is to stop demonising the elderly and infirm in our society!

Would I be correct if I said part of how we got here is if your grand parents lived beyond when they could look after themselves a family member would likely have to take on the duty of caring for them, while now its free to get someone else to do it so there no incentive, but you still want to inherit the house. Same for young single mums your generation they would have to have been looked after by there parents now the tax payer pays them to live in there own place and they loose money if they get back together with the father.

 

[Dutto]

At least the beer is better these days...

Er ... I hope you mean "At least the home brewed beer is better these days." 'cos I can assure you that most of the gnats pee they sell in supermarkets and pubs nowadays is a bad joke!

 

[-Bezza-]

Er ... I hope you mean "At least the home brewed beer is better these days." 'cos I can assure you that most of the gnats pee they sell in supermarkets and pubs nowadays is a bad joke!

Well that's a matter of taste. I can go to the pub outside my office and get Yeastie Boys Gunnamatta, Brew Dog Punk, Beavertown Gamma Ray - all beers that I love and think are interesting, not to mention boozy. I wasn't there, but wasn't Bass Ale the only option in the 60s?

 

[Saisonator]

Well that's a matter of taste. I can go to the pub outside my office and get Yeastie Boys Gunnamatta, Brew Dog Punk, Beavertown Gamma Ray - all beers that I love and think are interesting, not to mention boozy. I wasn't there, but wasn't Bass Ale the only option in the 60s?

Come on they had Watney's Red Barrel too.

 

[Dutto]

Would I be correct if I said part of how we got here is if your grand parents lived beyond when they could look after themselves a family member would likely have to take on the duty of caring for them, while now its free to get someone else to do it so there no incentive, but you still want to inherit the house. Same for young single mums your generation they would have to have been looked after by there parents now the tax payer pays them to live in there own place and they loose money if they get back together with the father.

Yes and No. Both my grandfathers died at home. One from alcoholism and the second from "old age" (75 being "old age" for a coal miner). Of my grandmothers, on my Dad's side Granny was looked after by her sons and daughters on a rota system until she died in the home of my Aunty Eva; on my Nana's side the two sons paid for her care in a Care Home when her own meagre savings ran out. Nana finally succumbed to old age at 92 years from rectal cancer.

My Dad (another coal miner) also died at home at the age of 77 years whereas my Mum lived until she was 98. She died in a Care Home which was funded from her own savings without the need to sell her home (which I kept for her in case she ever recovered her health enough to leave the Care Home).

When we move on to the next generation my wife and I have always supported ourselves and provided for our family without the need for State handouts and at the moment was are in a position to still help our children, grandchildren and great-grandchild if the need arises.

However, two things:

1. We have been fortunate enough to always have work.
2. We have worked hard all of our lives.
3. We have tried to live within our means.
4. We have paid everything that our government asked for in the form of taxes and national insurance.

This is why I get incensed when the people in charge of this country and the businesses within it are able to:

• Avoid paying their own taxes.
• Rob the working people of their pensions in order to pay themselves massive bonuses and dividends.
• Sell off to their friends the essential services that my own and previous generations paid for.
• Put people out of work and then decry the fact that they need financial support.
• Demonise young lasses who are silly enough to get themselves pregnant.
• Control the media to the extent that their lies are handed around as Truths when they are patently not.
• Fail to maintain the infrastructure of the country on the basis that "we" are a poor country when in fact we are a wealthy country; but only for the few.

The litany could continue but before I get carried away all I ever ask is that you look about you. See the potholes, see the long grasses that aren't being cut, see the poverty and homelessness about you, pay the inflated prices for your essential services and watch the ensuing profits being taken out of the country; and then come back and tell me who is responsible.

It sure as hell isn't my family!

 

[Dutto]

Well that's a matter of taste. I can go to the pub outside my office and get Yeastie Boys Gunnamatta, Brew Dog Punk, Beavertown Gamma Ray - all beers that I love and think are interesting, not to mention boozy. I wasn't there, but wasn't Bass Ale the only option in the 60s?

Come on they had Watney's Red Barrel too.

I didn't say that all of the modern beers are crap any more that I would suggest that all of the older beers were superb.

As an example, Watney's Red Barrel gave away a great Key Ring with a little Red Barrel on it. It still wan't worth buying a pint to get one!

How about Double Diamond? One of the greatest selling beers in the UK but "they" did something and it suddenly changed, so I stopped buying it.

What I'm thinking of when I extol the virtues of the beers available back in the 60's and 70's are Mansfield Bitter, Shipstones Bitter, Sam Smiths Bitter, Batemans Bitter, Green King etc. They were great beers and although some of them are still in production they are a shadow of what they were in terms of taste.

By now you will appreciate that I tended to drink bitter back then but even I got seduced by the really cheap lagers like Carling Black Label. However, I would like to point out that when they were first introduced we had to mix them with Lime Juice or Lemonade for them to be even drinkable. (Many are the mornings when my pee has smelled more of Lime Juice than anything else!)

Yes, today you have some really nice beers available but at what price? On another Thread someone was extolling the virtues of a local pub that was selling their beer at more than £6 a pint? God Almighty! Back in the days when I could really put it away, at that price I would have to leave the house with a weeks wages in my pocket just to get a mild buzz from the beer! I guess the taste and quality of the beer isn't the only thing that as changed; and not for the better!

 

[-Bezza-]

@Dutto - So you had cheap and good beer too. You really did have it easy! :wink:

 

[Gunge]

@Dutto - So you had cheap and good beer too. You really did have it easy! :wink:

These oldies, they don't know they're born!

 

[Dutto]

I do, and when I look at the younger generations I have to wonder just where we went wrong!

 

[simon12]

Yes and No. Both my grandfathers died at home. One from alcoholism and the second from "old age" (75 being "old age" for a coal miner). Of my grandmothers, on my Dad's side Granny was looked after by her sons and daughters on a rota system until she died in the home of my Aunty Eva; on my Nana's side the two sons paid for her care in a Care Home when her own meagre savings ran out. Nana finally succumbed to old age at 92 years from rectal cancer.

My Dad (another coal miner) also died at home at the age of 77 years whereas my Mum lived until she was 98. She died in a Care Home which was funded from her own savings without the need to sell her home (which I kept for her in case she ever recovered her health enough to leave the Care Home).

When we move on to the next generation my wife and I have always supported ourselves and provided for our family without the need for State handouts and at the moment was are in a position to still help our children, grandchildren and great-grandchild if the need arises.

However, two things:

1. We have been fortunate enough to always have work.
2. We have worked hard all of our lives.
3. We have tried to live within our means.
4. We have paid everything that our government asked for in the form of taxes and national insurance.

This is why I get incensed when the people in charge of this country and the businesses within it are able to:

• Avoid paying their own taxes.
• Rob the working people of their pensions in order to pay themselves massive bonuses and dividends.
• Sell off to their friends the essential services that my own and previous generations paid for.
• Put people out of work and then decry the fact that they need financial support.
• Demonise young lasses who are silly enough to get themselves pregnant.
• Control the media to the extent that their lies are handed around as Truths when they are patently not.
• Fail to maintain the infrastructure of the country on the basis that "we" are a poor country when in fact we are a wealthy country; but only for the few.

The litany could continue but before I get carried away all I ever ask is that you look about you. See the potholes, see the long grasses that aren't being cut, see the poverty and homelessness about you, pay the inflated prices for your essential services and watch the ensuing profits being taken out of the country; and then come back and tell me who is responsible.

It sure as hell isn't my family!

Cheers for the answer, I should have worded differently as I didn't mean to be personal just your generation but I think you answered what I was looking for anyway. 1 thing i don't get is when you said yes and no which bit is no. Also when you say "Demonise young lasses who are silly enough to get themselves pregnant." I thought it was more socially acceptable today than ever, am I wrong?

 

[foxbat]

Shipstones Bitter,

Shippo's is back courtesy of a brewer trained at the Belvoir Brewery and now brewing under the Shipstones name in Old Basford. Have you tried it? I've had the Best and Nut Brown in a couple of city center pubs in Nottingham and me and the others in the pub who all remember the old stuff agreed this revival makes it better than it ever was.

 

[Thumper]

"Thumper said: ↑
Shipstones Bitter,"

No I didn't!

 

[Dutto]

........... 1 thing i don't get is when you said yes and no which bit is no. Also when you say "Demonise young lasses who are silly enough to get themselves pregnant." I thought it was more socially acceptable today than ever, am I wrong?

No offence taken,

The "Yes and No" is that I can agree with some of the Post and disagree with other elements.

Let's take the pregnant young ladies as an example. Your Post said "the tax payer pays them to live in there own place and they lose money if they get back together with the father."

So "Yes" and "No". I agree with the statement but I would think that, as a group, these young ladies could in no way have influenced what the Government does or does not hand out as "benefits". What these young ladies cost the nation pales into insignificance when compared to the companies and individuals that don't pay their taxes.

I'm also pretty sure that a huge percentage of these ladies got themselves pregnant more by accident than design.

So what if a few of them got pregnant so that they could leave home and get a life of their own? We don't all have perfect home lives with loving parents.

So what if they are using the system to their own ends? Disregard the thieves, cheats and charlatans amongst us and look at how ordinary business people employ accountants to ensure that they get every penny they can out of the government.

Why do the papers aim for the vulnerable single parent who is trying her best to bring up a child? Because they are an easy target and I suspect that people who are stealing mega-bucks from the same source are paying them to distract their readership.

The latest fiasco to hit the headlines is Carillion. Take a look at the chart on the BBC link below.

For eight years the Management have paid ever increasing Dividends to their Shareholders and taken ever increasing Bonuses and Pay Rises by failing to pay into the Company Pension Fund. The Pension Deficit is now calculated at £900 million.

The "taxpayer" who pays the Single Parent's Benefits is the same "taxpayer" who will ultimately pay for the nine hundred million pounds worth of Dividends and Bonuses paid out by Carillion Management ...

... and I know where I would prefer my taxes to go!

Things have to change!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42853895

 

[Thumper]

Also when you say "Demonise young lasses who are silly enough to get themselves pregnant." I thought it was more socially acceptable today than ever

Following on from Dutto's point, it's important to note that the fact they are less demonised now than ever before does not mean they are not demonised.

 

[Saisonator]

I think if the welfare state was not there take the place financially, of the absent father, women would be a lot more choosey with who they let impregnate them.
In fact they may even insist on the FREE contraception available to everybody before they decided to do the deed.

 

[-Bezza-]

What these young ladies cost the nation pales into insignificance when compared to the companies and individuals that don't pay their taxes

I'm bored, so let's have a look at that claim. Oh what it is to have information at our fingertips...

The UK "tax gap" in 2017, i.e. the difference between what HMRC should collect and what they actually collect, is estimated at £34bn (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../file/655097/HMRC-measuring-tax-gaps-2017.pdf)

UK welfare spending in 2015 was £217bn. More than £34bn of that was spent on benefits for lower income families through housing benefits, working and child tax credits etc. (https://fullfact.org/economy/welfare-budget/). Of course it will never be possible to determine what was spent on those who accidentally got pregnant vs those who did so deliberately. The right wing answer would be that it is not right for anyone to have a child if they can't afford to raise it.

Look how much the old people are costing us too! I say we move to a Logan's Run type society, although might need to raise the age a bit as I'd have passed my Last Day.

At least the younger generation know that it is not only the fault of "the young lasses who are silly enough to get themselves pregnant" but that the boys are responsible too! :thumb1:

 

[foxbat]

"Thumper said: ↑
Shipstones Bitter,"

No I didn't!

Indeed you didn't. Fixed. Don't know what the forum did there.