To Secondary Ferment or Not to Secondary Ferment!

[Tayport]

Hi all,

Just after some advice about when you should secondary ferment and when you shouldn't...

My current brew's initial fermentation is almost complete, but I don't know whether to rack it into bottles to drink or rack into a keg for secondary fermentation?

Also if I choose to secondary ferment does that mean I need to add more sugar??

Many thanks

 

[Sean_Mc]

Whether you use bottles or a barrel if you want carbonation in the beer you have to secondary ferment.

With bottles I use 1/2 teaspoon per bottle and leave them in the warm 21c for 7-10days. Then put them in my cool shed for a few weeks.

Got to have a cheeky sample bottle though after 7-10days in the warm, just to check

 

[teabicky]

My understanding is that you can do either and secondary fermentation will occur. If you go straight into bottles it is important to ensure that primary fermentation is complete (i.e. the same reading on the hydrometer for three days running) as there is a risk of the bottles exploding.

Secondary fermentation takes about one week in a warm environment. After that the beer should be put somewhere cool. The longer the beer is left here the better as it will taste better (i believe this is called conditioning - please correct me if i'm wrong). Beer conditions quicker in bottles but pours more like a 'pub' pint from a keg.

As for the sugar, that is personal choice and is used to give the beer that lovely fizz by carbonating it. I'm not sure how much to put into a keg, but it is important to only put about 1/2 teaspoon into each bottle because, again there is a risk of explosion.

I am VERY amateur, so please check up on this.

 

[Tayport]

Thanks guys... So secondary fermentation is really to give your brew some fizz and should take about 7-10 days, and I shouldn't add more than half a teaspoon of sugar per bottle.

Quick question though, does it need to be brewing sugar and once secondary fermentation is complete should you rack it into another container before conditioning??

Sorry for all the questions, but I just want to get it right!

 

[teabicky]

I used household sugar, i think that brewing sugar is better for primary fermentation but I'm not sure. You don't have to use any sugar at all for secondary, it will still go through a fermentation period.

As for putting into another container, I don't think that it is necessary. After racking, following the primary fermentation, the rest of the magic should all happen in the keg/ bottles.

 

[Sean_Mc]

Lager (not that I do many) I up the sugar to 3/4 per bottle to get it a bit fizzier and with pale ales and lagers I now transfer to another FV after 10days, give it another week for the **** to drop, then bottle :thumb:

 

[shearclass]

Sean_mc, why do you just do this for lagers and pale ales? is it purely so there is less sediment in there? Why is this not important for heavier ales?

I am considering transferring the brew to a 2nd fermentation bucket before i bottle/barrel it, as i thought this would result in less sediment being included in the final product.

I am a newbie, hence all my questions!

 

[Tayport]

Thanks again for all your advice guys - is much appreciated as always... So it's okay to further rack your brew into another keg / bottles to avoid all the sediment produced from secondary fermentation when you come to drink it?

Quick question though, is there a chance you could lose a lot of the fizz produced by secondary fermentation if you carry out a further racking stage?

 

[graysalchemy]

I ferment for a week or until it has dropped to its final gravity. I then leave it at the same temp for a few days more to allow the yeast to clean up after itself. I then drop it into a fresh cleaned FV and leave it somewhere cool for a further week or 10 days to clear the beer before bottling. I then bottle using 7g of sugar per litre of beer. I then put it back in my fermentation cupboard at 21 deg c for a further week then take out and let mature in the bottle somewhere cool again for 4 weeks.

Then I open and drink :drink: :drink:

Oh that was my 1000th post again :lol: :lol:

 

[Sean_Mc]

Sean_mc, why do you just do this for lagers and pale ales? is it purely so there is less sediment in there? Why is this not important for heavier ales?

I am considering transferring the brew to a 2nd fermentation bucket before i bottle/barrel it, as i thought this would result in less sediment being included in the final product.

I am a newbie, hence all my questions!

I think it helps with clarity of a paler coloured beer :hmm: and with having less bottle sediment.
I have limited stocks of brown glass and keep the clear and green glass for pales, it looks unsightly to my thinking having a big sediment in a clear glass, especially when your giving out some.

You can't really see sediment in brown glass, I just give a warning to pour slowly

Really pleased with my SNPA clone, so have just bottled six with glucose instead of sugar, theses will be given to a harsh judge, My ex-landlord, Father inlaw :pray:

EDIT: Well done AG on the new title :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

Oh that was my 1000th post again :lol: :lol:

Oh well we will soon change that :lol: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[robsan77]

If I've no beer then I do a low gravity beer which normally is done in 5 days, crash chill for 2 then corny.
If I am using a liquid yeast i will probably primary for 1 week then chill to 10c for 1 day and 5c for 2 and dont bother with a secondary.
Sometimes I will put it into secondary if I've the time and lots of beer already.
Looking forward to dropping my next brew after 16hours, never done it before.

 

[robsan77]

oh and this is my 1000th post..... again

 

[fermentall]

I'm keeping my post count low so the mods won't notice me creeping up and knock me. :lol:

 

[graysalchemy]

Oh that was my 1000th post again :lol: :lol:

Oh well we will soon change that :lol: :twisted: :twisted:

I have tried very hard to keep off word association but aleman keeps on coming up with clever answers which I have to respond to. Hopefully there are only a few WA posts in my tally and by the time it is culled again I should be well over the 1000 mark again.

PS I lost over 700 posts in the last clean out :lol: :lol:

 

[gurtpint]

I came across this transcript in the net: "To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In"

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/second ... gh-176837/

I have always used a secondary this far, but with my current brew I'll be leaving it in the primary for a bit longer and then rack directly into a bottling bucket.

 

[graysalchemy]

Interesting :hmm: :hmm:

 

[Aleman]

I have always found it funny when people talk about secondary and secondary fermentation, because there is no such thing . . . the whole process right up to and including conditioning is one single fermentation.

The idea of splitting the fermentation over two vessels is a by product of the dropping system, where actively fermenting wort is dropped into another fermenter (possibly introducing air and encouraging a better fermentation), to remove it from the break proteins and any dead yeast that has settled out in the first fermenter. The US brewers zealously adopted this as being the best way to brew as it got the wort off the trub and away from air . . . and as such can be left for an extended time. These are all valid reasons for doing this, as if you were to leave the young beer in contact with the trub and dead yeast for an extended time at fermenting temperatures (or warmer) there is the serious potential of introducing poor flavours.

If you pitch an adequate amount of yeast, into a nutrient rich wort at the correct temperature a 'normal' beer should ferment out in 3-5 days. . . . The Effin Imperial Stout I made only took 10 days to complete it's fermentation . . . and that was a 1.098 beer. The problems occur with moving to another fermenter when it is done late, as it removes the bulk of the yeast from the beer, which often means that there is insufficient yeast remaining behind to allow the undesired by products of fermentation to be removed. It has taken a while for a lot of brewers to realise this, and the roundabout has turned again to using one fermenter but allowing the yeast to drop. . . . Personally I don't like recommending this unless the beer is also going to be cooled while it's sat in the FV. The though of someone leaving a beer in the fv for three weeks at 28C worries me . . . yes you can leave the beer in the FV for 3 weeks but ideally you want to drop the temperature to 2-4C after the first 10 days.

 

[Ceejay]

So, in that case, there seems to be 2 methods for 2 sets of equipment.

If you've got the resources to chill the FV down to 2-4 degrees for a couple of weeks, leave it in primary.

Conversely, if you've no such control over temperature, drop it into anothr fermenter. Aleman, you say if this is done too late , you run the risk of taking too much yeast out of suspension and not being able to removed the undesirable byproducts. Would you therefore advocate the "original" dropping technique of doing this just after the "billowy clouds" stage, so after 48 hours or so? I think many people are scared of doing that, in case they get a stuck ferment :hmm:

 

[Tayport]

Very interesting....

Once primary fermentation is complete I am considering leaving it for a further 3 days to let the cr@p settle out, before transferring to a clean FV and leaving at 2 - 4 degrees for a further week, before finally priming into bottles and secondary fermenting for 5-7 days, before once again cooling and leaving it to mature.

Does this sound okay?