BarryC
New Member
Sorry Peebee didn't mean to hi-jack your work - just thought it might be useful for Crappyfish to read your comments - Humble Apologies !
Tilt Hydrometer
- Thread starter Braufather
- Start date
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To Crappyfish
Someone has bought you a present that probably cost them £140! I'm sorry you are not impressed. What is it that you don't like? It does not tell you ABV directly, it only measures temperature and density (Specific Gravity). The ABV is calculated by the same method all beer brewers use - original gravity minus final gravity multiplied by 1.3125. Can you put it on eBay? You would probably get £80.
Someone has bought you a present that probably cost them £140! I'm sorry you are not impressed. What is it that you don't like? It does not tell you ABV directly, it only measures temperature and density (Specific Gravity). The ABV is calculated by the same method all beer brewers use - original gravity minus final gravity multiplied by 1.3125. Can you put it on eBay? You would probably get £80.
peebee
Out of Control
Good grief, nothing to apologise for! I'm sort of pleased that I haven't been tempted to link it 'cos that would have been a bit presumptuous of me (and I'm terrified of enraging the administrators … although I have been told before, they really are not so sensitive to such "cross-platform posting").
(EDIT: I think @Crappyfish is taking your suggestion to read my comments so I don't think we'll hear from him for a bit: He'll be half the night trying to read that mammoth thread!).
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peebee
Out of Control
Here go. May as well "spread the load" across forums. This extraordinarily sedate fermentation has already finished (1.009 this morning) and I'm assuming the Tilt is catching up as the load of yeast "falls off" the Tilt. Perhaps?
The major "sticking point" was about SG1.025 (4 days ago) and the Tilt is only recovering from that now. Perhaps?
So it's not perfect, but it is a convenience. I'd never have had this information available to me before. The "errors" shouldn't affect the finished beer and as I know they are there …
The major "sticking point" was about SG1.025 (4 days ago) and the Tilt is only recovering from that now. Perhaps?
So it's not perfect, but it is a convenience. I'd never have had this information available to me before. The "errors" shouldn't affect the finished beer and as I know they are there …
It's not finished fermenting until the SG plateaus. Mines at 1.007 after 12 days and I think it will drop at least one more point. Yours looks entirely normal. I sometimes remove clean and put back the Tilt after the krausen has diminished. Is it a low temp yeast? Mine is at 19 or 20.
Crappyfish
Landlord.
Update on the tilt issue. Just tried it with a pi which seems better than the app. In the android app is a calibration setting which seemed to have upset the readings. I would like to thank all for their help and I will now use the pi and the only way to find out if it's better is to make another brew . Damn shame that
See my current brew - still dropping! Using Pi Zero W.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rtJPv4l7uXgmrogMLUzUa3IjL9gDmMuPwiL-Nd4LVkA/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rtJPv4l7uXgmrogMLUzUa3IjL9gDmMuPwiL-Nd4LVkA/edit?usp=sharing
peebee
Out of Control
Removing the Tilt to clean it seems like a good plan. Unfortunately it can't work for me because the beer is sealed in a conical fermenter and I'd prefer not to disturb it until I'm casking/kegging.
I was a bit premature suggesting the SG recorded by the Tilt will catch up with that recorded by Refractometer. The SG (recorded by Tilt) actually went up over-night. I don't expect that the yeast cap will subside much before it gets kegged. This fermentation was carried out a 17-18C. The trace certainly isn't "normal" but has lost a lot in shrinking it down: Notice there is a period of over 12 hours on 7/7/19 where the trace goes nowhere (the Tilt is stuck about 1.025, it also got stuck about 1.032 for a few hours). The Tilt never really regained the 4 SG points that it fell behind at that point.
The Tilt is not precision tool. But do we need a precision tool? I think you can easily adapt your ways to fit with the Tilt's idiosyncrasies, and people who habitually use relatively light top-cropping yeasts probably wont know what the fuss is about.
The "TiltPi" certainly is a good choice. So easy to set up, so cheap! If nothing else the TiltPi has been an invaluable introduction to the world of "Raspberry Pi".
peebee
Out of Control
Just shows; your Tilt has hesitated for an entire day on 3/7/19, yet you haven't raised an eyebrow. Obviously no sign of this causing it to over-read on subsequent days. I'm probably just a bit sensitive, normally my fermentations are done in 1-1/2 to 3 days and I think it's these fast fermentations that show up a Tilt's bad points.
I've certainly seen the SG go haywire during the first 24-36 hours, sometimes it goes high and sometimes low but quickly settles down. My guess is that the tilt is more accurate than a refractometer. It actually measures density directly whereas the refractometer measure refractive index and then you have to make assumptions about sugar versus alcohol content. These must be variables as it depends on how many sugars are fermentable. When I cross check with a hydrometer the Tilt is very close if it's reasonably clean/free of crud - within 2 points.
I did worry a bit! but it sorts itself out. This is the first brew where I have not cleaned the Tilt. I'll clean the Tilt on Monday and pop it back in before I siphon into a PB just to cross-check with hydrometer for FG.
SG is still dropping, on day 14!
peebee
Out of Control
Mines day 10 (usually casked by this time) and the Tilt is reading 1.011. The refractometer is reading 1.008 (it was 1.009 three days ago). My earlier optimism that the two readings would converge was a bit of wishful thinking.
But I'm figuring a work around. It is easy to see the Tilt hesitate and I know in my setup (closed in a conical fermenter) it won't recover the points "lost" during the hesitation (if it is yeast causing it, the yeast is well stuck on the Tilt and won't be sliding off). So I can drop in three 'on-the-fly' calibration points (one to terminate the previous calibration followed by a pair to setup the new, temporary, calibration that allows for the new over-read). I wouldn't need this "fix" if it was practical to remove and clean the Tilt. I do need to remember to remove the on-the-fly calibration before kicking off a new brew.
More mucking about, but to put this into context: Decide to make hydrometer readings easier by floating a hydrometer in the beer and leaving it there. Nope, that's not going to work - at all!
But I'm figuring a work around. It is easy to see the Tilt hesitate and I know in my setup (closed in a conical fermenter) it won't recover the points "lost" during the hesitation (if it is yeast causing it, the yeast is well stuck on the Tilt and won't be sliding off). So I can drop in three 'on-the-fly' calibration points (one to terminate the previous calibration followed by a pair to setup the new, temporary, calibration that allows for the new over-read). I wouldn't need this "fix" if it was practical to remove and clean the Tilt. I do need to remember to remove the on-the-fly calibration before kicking off a new brew.
More mucking about, but to put this into context: Decide to make hydrometer readings easier by floating a hydrometer in the beer and leaving it there. Nope, that's not going to work - at all!
Crappyfish
Landlord.
That's what screwed mine up the calibrations were old so all the time it was reading the old calibrations if you don't remove them it won't work the Android app seems a bit poor compared to the pi which is set it and forget it apparently. I think the tilt is a expensive gadget and not much more until confidence is gained with it. My brother swears by his but still checks the final gravity with a hydrometer.
I have one, and find it fantastic. Great to indicate the progress of my fermentation. without disturbing or taking liquid out.
The app enables you to upload the temperature and SG up-to brewfather or similar.
Word of note is that the device doesn't store readings and you need to have the app open on your phone to get data. You can get round this by either having a phone with the screen on permanently or a tablet, or a tilt-pi.
I have my fermentor sat in a fridge and then a tilt-pi on the other side of the room uploading readings every 15 mins.
The app enables you to upload the temperature and SG up-to brewfather or similar.
Word of note is that the device doesn't store readings and you need to have the app open on your phone to get data. You can get round this by either having a phone with the screen on permanently or a tablet, or a tilt-pi.
I have my fermentor sat in a fridge and then a tilt-pi on the other side of the room uploading readings every 15 mins.
peebee
Out of Control
The final plot for the brew (it's been casked now) was:
Each 'block' represents 2 days (horizontally) (for me this is an unusually sedate fermentation) and at the beginning of the third day the Tilt starts to 'stick' for over 12 hours (notice the trace gets very 'noisy' during these episodes). Subsequently it over-read by about 0.004 (SG) before it was 'recalibrated' on the 11th day (hence the steep drop on the graph). The recalibration is because I'm tweaking the configuration 'on-the-fly' in an attempt to find a work around to the persistent over-reading. The red dotted line roughly follows refractometer readings.
I'm doing this because I was (sort of) commissioned by a disgruntled Tilt owner to find out what's wrong. I now see my work as counter-balancing the 'love' issuing from other Tilt owners who are not going to admit it has problems ('cos they spent a small fortune on the thing). I actually like them, but think it is a good idea to understand how they go wrong and know how to make allowances (or do nothing and just be aware the results are a bit 'dodgy').
(The graph is created in "Google Sheets". This is the default setup for a Tilt and doesn't require knowledge of that app.)
Each 'block' represents 2 days (horizontally) (for me this is an unusually sedate fermentation) and at the beginning of the third day the Tilt starts to 'stick' for over 12 hours (notice the trace gets very 'noisy' during these episodes). Subsequently it over-read by about 0.004 (SG) before it was 'recalibrated' on the 11th day (hence the steep drop on the graph). The recalibration is because I'm tweaking the configuration 'on-the-fly' in an attempt to find a work around to the persistent over-reading. The red dotted line roughly follows refractometer readings.
I'm doing this because I was (sort of) commissioned by a disgruntled Tilt owner to find out what's wrong. I now see my work as counter-balancing the 'love' issuing from other Tilt owners who are not going to admit it has problems ('cos they spent a small fortune on the thing). I actually like them, but think it is a good idea to understand how they go wrong and know how to make allowances (or do nothing and just be aware the results are a bit 'dodgy').
(The graph is created in "Google Sheets". This is the default setup for a Tilt and doesn't require knowledge of that app.)
So long as the Tilt shows the progressive drop in SG, it does not concern me that it may be 'out' by a few points. I use it to tell me when fermentation has finished. I bought mine for £99 and won't buy another until I see an offer. I still take an OG and FG with a hydrometer if I need to determine the ABV but am getting more relaxed about this. What does the ABV matter anyway? The kits I brew are all around 5%. But I don't like it when they end up sweet.
BarryC
New Member
Have to agree my experience was similar. The first Tilt I purchased was extremely inaccurate so much so that I emailed Baron Brew and they advised that the Tilt was probably not calibrated before it left the Factory.
The unit was checked in water before use and gave an accurate reading, however after use the brews ( Four to date ) all gave erroneous readings when taken using the Tilt Pi program section of e-mail as follows:-
Can you help please, my Tilt Red Hydrometer has been used for four batches of beer now and I have checked the SG in Water prior to commencing fermentation ( In Water at 20 Deg C ) and the Tilt accurately reads 1.000
However on each of the batches the FG was recorded and checked with a standard wide range glass Hydrometer - There seemed to be a considerable difference ( as much as 10 points in some instances ! ) between the Tilt hydrometer and a glass reference hydrometer ? The strange thing was the Tilt read correctly in Water ? When asked if they could shed any light on these inaccuracies they advised that it could be a defective "uncalibrated" unit
They kindly agreed to send a replacement free of charge and requested that I return the faulty unit. I haven’t had the opportunity to test the new replacement unit yet. I can’t fault their Customer Service.
So in conclusion I don’t think the Tilt hydrometer is that accurate although I do need to test the replacement but it does give a useful “Trend” without having to open the fermenter. I was surprised with all of the brews how quickly the fermentation proceeded after the initial lag period with complete fermentation in less than four to five days with some brews then a flat set of readings indicating fermentation had apparently ceased. So a useful addition - but expensive and not that accurate !
The unit was checked in water before use and gave an accurate reading, however after use the brews ( Four to date ) all gave erroneous readings when taken using the Tilt Pi program section of e-mail as follows:-
Can you help please, my Tilt Red Hydrometer has been used for four batches of beer now and I have checked the SG in Water prior to commencing fermentation ( In Water at 20 Deg C ) and the Tilt accurately reads 1.000
However on each of the batches the FG was recorded and checked with a standard wide range glass Hydrometer - There seemed to be a considerable difference ( as much as 10 points in some instances ! ) between the Tilt hydrometer and a glass reference hydrometer ? The strange thing was the Tilt read correctly in Water ? When asked if they could shed any light on these inaccuracies they advised that it could be a defective "uncalibrated" unit
They kindly agreed to send a replacement free of charge and requested that I return the faulty unit. I haven’t had the opportunity to test the new replacement unit yet. I can’t fault their Customer Service.
So in conclusion I don’t think the Tilt hydrometer is that accurate although I do need to test the replacement but it does give a useful “Trend” without having to open the fermenter. I was surprised with all of the brews how quickly the fermentation proceeded after the initial lag period with complete fermentation in less than four to five days with some brews then a flat set of readings indicating fermentation had apparently ceased. So a useful addition - but expensive and not that accurate !
peebee
Out of Control
Your experiences seemingly fit with a pattern. Their customer support is very good probably because they don't allow a serious backlog to build up. So they are pretty free handing out replacements, even if there is probably nothing wrong with the original. Pity they asked for the "defective" one back; I appear to now own two working (?) Tilts (they're both "black" so I can't use them together).
Commercially I think it is an advantage for them to replace working units than admit to the problems. I think the majority of owners either don't really notice the problems, or use them in environments where the problems don't appear. The most likely culprit I've identified so far is yeast sticking to the Tilt:
(This is after near emptying the fermenter, a Grainfather Conical). That's a weighty lump of yeast stuck to the top. The majority of these "mucky" yeasts are going to be used by a sub-section of Brits. The majority of users will be using "cleaner" bottom fermenting lager yeasts or weak top croppers like US-05, etc. and probably don't notice a problem (the problem is much reduced, but I'm not suggesting it goes away entirely). But remember, at this stage I'm only speculating.
I'm trying to come up with work arounds and ways to manage the Tilt so the problems aren't an "issue" any more, but its going to take a while (Month? Two?) before I can do that. The manufacturers might come up with something meantime.
