This may be heresy, but...

[Steelbacks]

If you're going to do that, why not just use bought bread?

I also suspect that any gain in efficiency is due to the flour being ground so fine. Essentially it's just finely ground unmalted wheat, and people use "crushed" unmalted wheat as an adjunct.

Bought bread tends to have more preservatives in than I'd like, and I'm not sure what effect it might have on the brewing process. Would the preservatives/additives in 'shop' bread kill off the yeast? I also make much better tasting bread than your average shop-bought loaf, and I'm looking for quality of flavour here, not just fuel alone for the yeast to feed on. I think a nice, home-made loaf is more likely to impart a p,easing flavour to the brew than a generic loaf from the local supermarket.

 

[Steelbacks]

I've brewed a wheat beer with 50% pale malt and 50% plain flour. So I had to use the pale malt for the diastatic enzymes, of course. Mashing in was a nightmare. The flour creates this super thick wallpaper and I was going to just throw the whole lot way before even adding the pale malt. I went and did some stuff for an hour and the paste had sorted itself out and then it was fine to mash in the rest of the malt.

The efficiency I got from the flour was huge. Sparge and lauter wasn't true BIAB but I used a bag in a strainer and drained through that. Boil, coriander, peel, bit of hops, etc.

On the way to the fermenter I strained again. Even so there was tons of trub in the fermenter. Like about an 8th of the volume.

And it's bloody lovely. I've said it on a few threads but it's like ice-cream with a hint of banana. I wish I'd hit it up with a few more hops but that's just me.

Google brewing with flour and you'll find this pdf on brewery tests done in 1962 or something. It was quite reassuring.

I hope this link works. I think I found the pdf you were referring to. You were right about it being 1962. Well remembered!

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...dk&s=c359cb4419fa803fe7a6bf2f525ee5f37a03eaca

 

[Thumper]

Both good reasons. As to preservatives, I'm afraid I don't know. I imagine it would depend on the preservative and the concentration thereof, but perhaps one of the more experienced members can answer.

 

[Dutto]

Never used bread in a brew but I often used Bread Yeast in "no alcohol" Middle East countries where I worked.

It may have been psychosomatic but I swear I could taste "bread" in the beer I brewed.

PS
I'm pretty sure that many of the locals thought my mate and I survived on a diet that mainly consisted of Malt Loaf; as demonstrated by the amount of Bread Yeast and Malt Extract that we bought in our local supermarket! :laugh:

 

[dad_of_jon]

Ok, so I think I understand most of what you've said, even if I don't know how to put it into practice yet. Adverts for packets of 'spray dried malt' make sense now, as does the use of amylase as the enzymes are killed off when boiling the wort. This leads me on to other questions though. Does spray dried malt (instead of sugar) make much difference to every brew, or is it only noticeable with certain recipes? Is there any benefit to using amylase when's a recipe doesn't call for it, or can it have a detrimental effect on the final 'product'? I could possibly see that it might allow more starches to be converted to alcohol, but might at the same time change the taste of the brew at the end.

Lastly (for now) I guess I should be using recipes with malted barley if I want to make 'nice' beers and avoid recipes which have too much 'other grains' in the recipe?

Okay, I've just had another thought. If I use a dark sugar to give a nice (hopefully) rich, dark flavour to my beer, do I have to increase the amount of sugar to take account of how much of the volume of the product is available to the yeast to convert into alcohol? If I want to make my brew sweeter, how can I do this (if indeed I can) as just adding sugar will in all probability just give the yeast more to feed on and I'll get a stronger beer but with the same taste (sort of)?

Most of my brews are done with spray dried malt. You don't need to use grains if you don't want to (although they will improve the end result)

 

[Drunkula]

Thumper is punching it - great are the efficiency boosts for you're dealing with flour. Typical grain weight has husk and rabbit bones all that junk, so the weight of the flour doesn't have that, just more sugary potential, plus for typical grain you're not getting that level of grind that lets you get right to the centre of the ectospermigiund. With flour your enzymes don't even have to fly down the trenches of the Death Star - every amylase torpedo hits the exhaust port. Problem is when draining every footstep is like you're in a swampy Dagobah.

I did a beer called "Brexfast" which was a comedy beer made with breakfast ingredients but NOT contienental breakfast ingredients.

I did toast, Shreddies, porridge, Weetabix tea, can't remember what else off the top of my head - as cascade is meant to be like grapefruit that was the obvious hop choise. And... it was fine. Not amazing but fine, and definitely fine for a beer I did as a joke. A 6/10 from the reviews.

Efficiency of doing toast vs flour - LOW - toasting will add extra flavours but you'd get them elsewhere for a fraction of the cost.

And if you're talking preservatives most of them get killed in a boil so bread you buy and then toast or just mash is fine - and is exactly what the Toast ale people do. They get that bit of sugar from the bread and that bit of "Oh yeah!" from the toasted bits and you can get the same thing from grains but it's fun not to. That's why I do it.

Don't think you can save a stash of money unless you're saving 70p a gallon on an AWESOME (It really is) wheat beer. The extra mashing in faff really isn't worth it... and I'm a super-ultra-mega-uber-master-miser. You do the dumb stuff for the fun of seeing people shaking their head in disbelief when it goes right.

 

[Dutto]

................. You do the dumb stuff for the fun of seeing people shaking their head in disbelief when it goes right.

... and keep the others on a high shelf, well out of sight of SWMBO, to be tasted every so often just in case they finally come good!

Which reminds me! The second anniversary of my only attempt at Barley Wine will be here soon! :headbang:

 

[Fil]

grab a brew bible by one of the masters G Wheeler, D Line, G Hughs.... all will walk you through the process and proscedurs with better explainations than must of us lot can provide and provide you with a selection of recipes to start you off , Graham Wheeler's (RIP) recipe for TTL is probably the most popular beer brewed so you should definitely check that one out

If brewing a kit that requires a sugar addition, spray malt aka DME or a tin of unhopped LME will brew beer with more mouthfeel and body. sugar (sucrose, brewers sugar, brew enhancer etc..) will ferment out to a very thin dry result. So generally a LME or DME sugar addition will probably produce a better kit brew.

Dark sugars are imho best avoided, if used in large volumes and contain a high molasses content they can leave a strong residual licorice taint as i found after adding a kilo of very dark sticky sugar to a ginger beer.

to sweeten a beer we can use artificial sweeteners or lactose which is a sugar that is not fermentable by general brewing yeasts, w/w lactose is about 1/2 as sweet as sucrose.. (its the source of sweetness in milk stouts)

when brewing ag imho its probably best to start out following recipes pretty closely as you refine your brewday procedures, once your brewing with a consistent method with your brew kit, almost everything will begin to fall into place and you will have a working understanding of the ingredients your using..

 

[Thumper]

Thumper is punching it

I honestly don't know what that means in this context.

 

[IainM]

I honestly don't know what that means in this context.

You haven't gotten into any fight with supernatural clowns recently?

 

[Thumper]

Not recently! :laugh2:

 

[Steelbacks]

... and keep the others on a high shelf, well out of sight of SWMBO, to be tasted every so often just in case they finally come good!

Which reminds me! The second anniversary of my only attempt at Barley Wine will be here soon! :headbang:

I was thinking about barley wine just a short while ago. A guy at work used to drink it. Don't think I've ever had it myself. Don't think I've ever seen it in a pub. No idea what it tastes like. I was thinking of making some. Maybe I shouldn't bother?

 

[Steelbacks]

grab a brew bible by one of the masters G Wheeler, D Line, G Hughs.... all will walk you through the process and proscedurs with better explainations than must of us lot can provide and provide you with a selection of recipes to start you off , Graham Wheeler's (RIP) recipe for TTL is probably the most popular beer brewed so you should definitely check that one out

If brewing a kit that requires a sugar addition, spray malt aka DME or a tin of unhopped LME will brew beer with more mouthfeel and body. sugar (sucrose, brewers sugar, brew enhancer etc..) will ferment out to a very thin dry result. So generally a LME or DME sugar addition will probably produce a better kit brew.

Dark sugars are imho best avoided, if used in large volumes and contain a high molasses content they can leave a strong residual licorice taint as i found after adding a kilo of very dark sticky sugar to a ginger beer.

to sweeten a beer we can use artificial sweeteners or lactose which is a sugar that is not fermentable by general brewing yeasts, w/w lactose is about 1/2 as sweet as sucrose.. (its the source of sweetness in milk stouts)

when brewing ag imho its probably best to start out following recipes pretty closely as you refine your brewday procedures, once your brewing with a consistent method with your brew kit, almost everything will begin to fall into place and you will have a working understanding of the ingredients your using..

But... but... I LIKE liquorice!

 

[Dutto]

I was thinking about barley wine just a short while ago. A guy at work used to drink it. Don't think I've ever had it myself. Don't think I've ever seen it in a pub. No idea what it tastes like. I was thinking of making some. Maybe I shouldn't bother?

Don't let my experience put you off.

My brew was a "Use up everything you can before going to France for three months.". As a result, I well overdid the Chocolate Malt and the end product tastes like dark liquid chocolate. (Although I'm not proud of it, mixed 50:50 with lemonade it actually makes a rather nice shandy for the summer months.)

Barley Wine is actually a very strong beer. Back in the day it was much loved by little old ladies who sat at the back of the bar and got quietly pissed on the stuff. When asked if they wanted a beer, the most common response was "No thank you! I would never drink beer, but I will have another Barley Wine."

It's still a popular drink (just Google Barley Wine for over 6 million results) and I can recommend it; especially if you have an ancient female relative that used to drink it. :thumb:

 

[Steelbacks]

Don't let my experience put you off.

My brew was a "Use up everything you can before going to France for three months.". As a result, I well overdid the Chocolate Malt and the end product tastes like dark liquid chocolate. (Although I'm not proud of it, mixed 50:50 with lemonade it actually makes a rather nice shandy for the summer months.)

Barley Wine is actually a very strong beer. Back in the day it was much loved by little old ladies who sat at the back of the bar and got quietly pissed on the stuff. When asked if they wanted a beer, the most common response was "No thank you! I would never drink beer, but I will have another Barley Wine."

It's still a popular drink (just Google Barley Wine for over 6 million results) and I can recommend it; especially if you have an ancient female relative that used to drink it. :thumb:[/QUOTE

It sounds like Barley Wine is far too good for 'little old ladies'. It sounds like your brew might be a hit with the ladies in general though... I hear they generally like chocolate. I have a beer glass somewhere that I got with a can of chocolate bitter a few yea ago. Can't find the glass right now, so can't tell you what it was. I'm away in a couple of weeks on a 3 week trip, so I don't think I'll be starting many new batches of brew unless I can time them right for when I get back. I have wondered about doing something small... just a demijohn batch... maybe a cider? Maybe I could start something off, move it into the garage while I'm away (I'm guessing the brew would just stall?) then take it out the garage to warm up and continue once I get back... as long as that wouldn't kill the yeast off? Anyway, Barley Wine... it's going on the list. Thanks!

 

[Dutto]

Stick on a lager.

Lager is meant to be brewed over a long period of time at low temperatures; and a genuine lager yeast is very tolerant of low temperatures. :thumb:

 

[Steelbacks]

Stick on a lager.

Lager is meant to be brewed over a long period of time at low temperatures; and a genuine lager yeast is very tolerant of low temperatures. :thumb:

Rightly or wrongly... for better or worse... I stuck on a Wilko Mexican style Cervesa yesterday after noon. Came down to it bubbling away nicely this morning. Kit says that it should be at around 18-20 C, but the coolest corner of the kitchen is at around about 22 C. I could put it in the loft, but that's only at about 9 C when I measured the temperature yesterday, and I'm guessing the yeast won't do anything at that temperature? I could put it in the garage but that would be colder still. Is 2 degrees going to make much difference to the ferment? I'm not sure whether Wilko use top quality, specialised lager yeasts or just a yeast that gives a passable result. I'm now expecting a flurry of posts telling me that Mexican style Cervesas aren't really lagers!

 

[Dutto]

I use the Wilco Cerveza as a base brew for almost all of my experimental brews. (The exception being last November when SWMBO came back with a Pilsner for the Spiced Pumpkin Ale on the basis that she'd forgotten what I'd asked for!) :shrug: With regard to the temperature, the Cerveza should ferment quite happily at 22 degrees. :thumb1:The Wilco Cerveza is a nice easy brew with a fairly innocuous taste. It improves with Cold Hopping or the inclusion of a Hop Tea before bottling, if you like the flavour of Hops. :thumb1: Enjoy the sound of an air-lock going "glub - glub". You will find that it is quite soothing; but mildly addictive!

 

[Steelbacks]

I use the Wilco Cerveza as a base brew for almost all of my experimental brews. (The exception being last November when SWMBO came back with a Pilsner for the Spiced Pumpkin Ale on the basis that she'd forgotten what I'd asked for!) :shrug: With regard to the temperature, the Cerveza should ferment quite happily at 22 degrees. :thumb1:The Wilco Cerveza is a nice easy brew with a fairly innocuous taste. It improves with Cold Hopping or the inclusion of a Hop Tea before bottling, if you like the flavour of Hops. :thumb1: Enjoy the sound of an air-lock going "glub - glub". You will find that it is quite soothing; but mildly addictive!

Glub - glub - glub (etc) is what's going on at the moment in the corner of the kitchen accompanying Tangerine Dream, whilst I blend up apples ready to do my cider brew this evening.

 

[Steelbacks]

I use the Wilco Cerveza as a base brew for almost all of my experimental brews. (The exception being last November when SWMBO came back with a Pilsner for the Spiced Pumpkin Ale on the basis that she'd forgotten what I'd asked for!) :shrug: With regard to the temperature, the Cerveza should ferment quite happily at 22 degrees. :thumb1:The Wilco Cerveza is a nice easy brew with a fairly innocuous taste. It improves with Cold Hopping or the inclusion of a Hop Tea before bottling, if you like the flavour of Hops. :thumb1: Enjoy the sound of an air-lock going "glub - glub". You will find that it is quite soothing; but mildly addictive!

Hi Dutto,

Thanks for the info about the Cervesa. As you've some experience brewing with this kit, maybe you can help me out? I started the brew at about 1200 on the 17th Jan and the OG was 1040. Yesterday 20th Jan) after bubbling quite vigorously for a few days, it stopped. It's done nothing since (well, not visibly at least) so I checked the SG to see if it was ready to siphon off into a keg to condition. The kit suggests a SG of 1008 but mine seems to be at 1010, though I'm not sure how accurate my hydrometer is. I've decided to leave it alone to do its thing for now, but do you think it's ok to go ahead and start conditioning?

Any advice would be much appreciated.