'Thieves' knocked off mopeds by police in London

[VW911]

Agree that these scumbags need to be stopped.
Using a car though, seems a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Half the time, these scrotes disappear down alleyways, footpaths, etc., where a car can't follow.
The damage to their cars must also cost a bit - I would imagine that they need to be taken off the road and examined after each contact.
I personally think that well trained motorcycle police, with appropriate machines and skills, would be both a safer and cheaper option...

The OP says that the 'peds are reaching speeds of 'up to 100 MPH'. Quite impressive for a 50cc learner legal machine...

 

[MrRook]

Agree that these scumbags need to be stopped.
Using a car though, seems a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Half the time, these scrotes disappear down alleyways, footpaths, etc., where a car can't follow.
The damage to their cars must also cost a bit - I would imagine that they need to be taken off the road and examined after each contact.
I personally think that well trained motorcycle police, with appropriate machines and skills, would be both a safer and cheaper option...

The OP says that the 'peds are reaching speeds of 'up to 100 MPH'. Quite impressive for a 50cc learner legal machine...

Probably going down hill, or over a cliff.

 

[VW911]

What if...


...Your 16 year old son is riding a moped (quite legally, sensibly, and within the law), as mine does, and he happens to be in the vicinity of one of these "incidents", and gets mistaken by the police for one of these scrotes, knocked off his bike and seriously injured (or worse)?

I totally agree that this scourge needs to be stopped, but there must be a better way than basically the officer driving the pursuit car being both judge (and possibly) executioner???

 

[mickthetrick]

surely this happens when they have failed to stop to the blue lights/sirens. so the police will know thats its not a young rider just going about their lawful business
someone thats done nothing wrong would stop.

 

[VW911]

Young kid, just passed his CBT, FLASHING BLUE LIGHTS ...panic, panic, panic, PANIC....
Maybe not notice the red light ahead...?

 

[Saisonator]

Agree that these scumbags need to be stopped.
Using a car though, seems a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Half the time, these scrotes disappear down alleyways, footpaths, etc., where a car can't follow.
The damage to their cars must also cost a bit - I would imagine that they need to be taken off the road and examined after each contact.
I personally think that well trained motorcycle police, with appropriate machines and skills, would be both a safer and cheaper option...

The OP says that the 'peds are reaching speeds of 'up to 100 MPH'. Quite impressive for a 50cc learner legal machine...

They are scooters and far bigger engines than 50cc

 

[VW911]

They are scooters and far bigger engines than 50cc

Scooters and mopeds are two totally different things....

A moped (in modern terms) is limited to 30mph...
Some scooters, BMW for example, are capable of well over the ton.

 

[Hoppyland]

Blimey, this is scary!
What next?? It seems to me that our police are vastly underfunded, and are trying to do an impossible job.
Something I recently read reckoned that well under 10% of crimes (not sure of the definition, might have been burglaries) are actually solved and anyone brought to justice. Therefore, under our present regime of austerity and cut-backs, crime does indeed seem to pay. Probably a better bet than going to university, and leaving with many thousands of pounds debt.
I hate this. But, what I hate more is apparent "quick-fix" solutions. Give all the police guns. Let them "ram" suspects. Ah, hell, we all think that there are obvious nasties out there and they should be hammered. But, that is the job of the courts, not the police. To put the police into a situation where they are expected to make a judgement like this (and ram or not ram is pretty similar to shoot or not shoot), I think is appalling.
Yep, I can see the appeal. But, for me, this elevates the possibility of innocent people being injured or killed. What would you think if it was your son or daughter - riding a moped when suddenly a gang overtook, and then a police car smashed into them? OK, unlikely, you'll say. But I do not like anything that moves our society towards a situation where the police, as in America, can make judgements that result in serious injury or death instead of letting the courts follow the proper lawful process. Too dangerous for my tastes!

 

[MyQul]

I think this is in response to some of these scrotes chucking their helmet when they see a copper as they knew they wouldnt be chased (because iirc a while back one of em got killed because he wasnt wearing helmet during a chase). So the police eased off of them. Then moped crime stats went through the roof. I read last week in the commuter papers that because the police (and public) have had enough of these scrotes and are now chasing them them down that they have now taken to mountain bikes and crimes from the back of pedal bikes is now on the rise

 

[divrack]

Blimey, this is scary!
What next?? It seems to me that our police are vastly underfunded, and are trying to do an impossible job.
Something I recently read reckoned that well under 10% of crimes (not sure of the definition, might have been burglaries) are actually solved and anyone brought to justice. Therefore, under our present regime of austerity and cut-backs, crime does indeed seem to pay. Probably a better bet than going to university, and leaving with many thousands of pounds debt.
I hate this. But, what I hate more is apparent "quick-fix" solutions. Give all the police guns. Let them "ram" suspects. Ah, hell, we all think that there are obvious nasties out there and they should be hammered. But, that is the job of the courts, not the police. To put the police into a situation where they are expected to make a judgement like this (and ram or not ram is pretty similar to shoot or not shoot), I think is appalling.
Yep, I can see the appeal. But, for me, this elevates the possibility of innocent people being injured or killed. What would you think if it was your son or daughter - riding a moped when suddenly a gang overtook, and then a police car smashed into them? OK, unlikely, you'll say. But I do not like anything that moves our society towards a situation where the police, as in America, can make judgements that result in serious injury or death instead of letting the courts follow the proper lawful process. Too dangerous for my tastes!

It's a good point, but the argument is about proportionality, i think it's a pretty small chance of life threatening injury. The problem of course is that technology and rules can make criminals almost unstoppable, if you're not allowed to run any risk of injuring them you might as well just give them a free pass.
I guess it just think it's a fair fight, you're playing on the road at speed, expect to play with a cop car..
Like if you are playing with a gun expect to get armed police taking shots at you.
It's kind of the agreement we make with the law.
I definitely do not think police should be armed as standard, for obvious reasons.
I'm writing this as someone who used to flee police on my bike, knowing they couldn't stop me, but that was for running lights etc, not mugging grannies.
Proportional is the key word really in all these kinds of questions, and is open to abuse and interpretation as we see in America. But just as it never want to see police arguing they were justified in shooting a man dead because his hand was near his pocket, i also don't want to see cities where a tiny criminal minority can basically do what they want.
There's a lot about the law that is an ass, but there is a need for police to be able to do their job.
Personally i think they should be able to extend the policy to corporate criminals in their penthouse offices.
Might be more hesitant moving billions offshore if a car could burst into the boardroom and defenestrate the buggers

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Young kid, just passed his CBT, FLASHING BLUE LIGHTS ...panic, panic, panic, PANIC....
Maybe not notice the red light ahead...?

These are trained officers they are going to be able to tell the difference between a kid doing 20 mph up to a set of lights and some scum bag trying to get away from them riding like a lunatic and endangering the public.

.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I hate this. But, what I hate more is apparent "quick-fix" solutions. Give all the police guns. Let them "ram" suspects.

But this isn't the case is it, the OP clearly states "Our highly-trained police drivers weigh up the risks and decide upon the most appropriate tactics in those circumstances" its a small team who are doing this not every copper in every car and i doubt every incident ends with the scrote being knocked off at what appears to be quite a high speed although having said that when you view your own dash cams footage you always appear to be going a lot faster than you actually are.

 

[phillc]

These are trained officers they are going to be able to tell the difference between a kid doing 20 mph up to a set of lights and some scum bag trying to get away from them riding like a lunatic and endangering the public.

Mistakes can happen, with unfortunate consequences.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...staken-identity-metropolitan-15-a8162616.html

 

[Dode]

I wonder how many here that are pandering to the police are just sooking up to them in the vain hope that they'll stay out of jail for a while. Until after Christmas, at least.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I think this is in response to some of these scrotes chucking their helmet when they see a copper as they knew they wouldnt be chased (because iirc a while back one of em got killed because he wasnt wearing helmet during a chase). So the police eased off of them. Then moped crime stats went through the roof. I read last week in the commuter papers that because the police (and public) have had enough of these scrotes and are now chasing them them down that they have now taken to mountain bikes and crimes from the back of pedal bikes is now on the rise

make sure u're wearing your hbf t-shirt myqul, it will get you immunity from police ramming u when your on your bike

 

[AdeDunn]

At the risk of losing my special snowflake, loony left credentials, something certainly needs to be done to return law and order to the UK streets! Scum bags everywhere think that they are pretty much untouchable these days, and I for one am pretty much sick of it.

Properly funding law enforcement would be a good start... This needs funding though, and it's hard to do that whilst cutting tax for the rich, and lining bankers pockets at the same time.... (there, lefty credentials safe once again....).

Risking my lefty status once again, we also need to look at tougher sentencing for juveniles. Too often under 14s go untouched by the police, as they feel powerless to do a whole lot. So you have kids who are behaving in outright criminal manners, as they think they can, as the police just won't do a whole lot about it as there's just no point. As these kids get older, they just don't suddenly change their ways and start behaving better after years of criminal behaviour.....

Not enough police patrols, not enough powers when they do catch wrong doers, not enough support when they do anyway. Too much posing by politicians pretending to be doing something by making more laws, whilst not actually funding proper enforcement of the laws we already had....

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Mistakes can happen, with unfortunate consequences.

Without going into detail of the case you linked to mistakes can happen in all branches of policing but as far as i know there haven't been any complaints against this "special" team yet and would you rather the scum had no deterrent, moped crime in London is on the decrease i hope this trend continues and this team is allowed to carry on doing a great job.

.

 

[phillc]

....would you rather the scum had no deterrent....

I would rather that the root causes of the crime were addressed, rather than an escalation of violence.

I am making assumptions now, and I would be very happy for someone to provide references either way, but I would think the majority of moped/scooter crime involves youth from a lower socio-economic background. Through education and a fairer society, in terms income distribution and access to opportunities, I believe this type of crime could also be reduced.

@AdeDunn touched on this in his earlier post regarding tax cuts for the rich, but equality in advanced market capitalist societies is quite poor, which in turn leads to underclass who see crime as a way to obtain the materialistic assets they're led to believe, through constant advertising, are essential.

Deliberate ramming during a chase does nothing to address the underlying issues and while it may reduce the specific instances of scooter/moped crime in this case, the perpetrators will soon turn to other methods, such as bicycles which were also mentioned earlier.

 

[Ajhutch]

Post 38 summarised:

“We’re very sorry to hear you suffered an acid attack. We aren’t able to catch the criminals and bring them to justice, but here’s a pamphlet detailing some recent advances made in social mobility”

It shouldn’t be beyond the wit of man to both make society more equal and deal with criminals at the same time. As a wise man once said: “tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime”.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I would rather that the root causes of the crime were addressed, rather than an escalation of violence.
I am making assumptions now, and I would be very happy for someone to provide references either way, but I would think the majority of moped/scooter crime involves youth from a lower socio-economic background. Through education and a fairer society, in terms income distribution and access to opportunities, I believe this type of crime could also be reduced.

As would we all but we all know that aint going to happen any time soon so in the meantime a deterrent is needed and this one is having the desired effect throwing your crash helmet away is not going to stop the chase once they realise this fact they may just think twice about doing the crine in the first place.

This is the sort of scum we are discussing. (skip to 1:00 - bad language warning)