The Quest for the Perfect Bitter

[Oneflewover]

Water is tap water (Thames Water). I add 50ml CRS per 45l and about 1 cambden tablet (I use powder). 13g of DWB to the mash per 25l final volume. The values are based on a Murphy water report.

I imagine that with the CRS and DWB you've got quite a mineral rich liquor. Presumably you're looking to 'Burtonise' the water with a view to a sulphate forward composition. Do you have a target profile or is the result of trial and error?

 

[The Baron]

Silly Old Sod looks like one worth trying then. I've got Wyeast Scottish and Irish lurking in the fridge so I might give one of those a whirl or on the other hand I might trouble CML.

I'm gunna give this a try too. I have used the BEoIR yeast and liked the taste it finished a little higher than normal yeast giving that little extra slight sweetness

 

[Simoncbr600steelie]

Thanks, I think I'll go with that. I remember a comment from a poster here the other day to the effect that "a bit of Munich improves any beer" , so reckon I'll give it a try.

Hi, nice bike mate still very exotic after all these years

 

[Dads_Ale]

I imagine that with the CRS and DWB you've got quite a mineral rich liquor. Presumably you're looking to 'Burtonise' the water with a view to a sulphate forward composition. Do you have a target profile or is the result of trial and error?

The profile came with the Murphys report as suitable for bitters and Pale ales. I have simply stuck with for the past few years.

 

[Galena]

Old Hooky is quite malty and got me back into Best Bitters.

By coincidence I am just working on adjusting my next batch of Old Hooky clone

 

[Oneflewover]

The profile came with the Murphys report as suitable for bitters and Pale ales. I have simply stuck with for the past few years.

Sorry, you did say so. I think that I need to go with a more sulphate forward profile.

 

[peebee]

Just put on, first glass (of this second keg), vented last night, hand-pumped...

Tetley's 1868 XK Bitter Ale clone.

Yeah, the names are a bit outlandish after 150 years. Needs a day or two to settle down, where upon it will meet @An Ankoù's criteria of "Horlicks"!

Written up >here<. This is already four months old. The advantage of these "Victorian" recipes is that they do age rather well (modern bitter recipes get tired after only a few weeks). The disadvantage is they are flippin' strong! Although this one at under 6% ABV is weaker than most. I still think a bit of recipe "fusion" is in order.

The problem is there is nothing in the Pubs these days to compare it to. Nor is there anything in the Pubs I'd rather drink.

 

[An Ankoù]

Yeah, the names are a bit outlandish after 150 years. Needs a day or two to settle down, where upon it will meet @An Ankoù's criteria of "Horlicks"!

Steady on @peebee , my reference to Horlicks was an attempt to describe how Chevallier malt is in a different league to other pale malts in terms of richness and a lingering sweetness that defies the FG of the beer.

I, too, brew Victorian recipes: Simmonds Bitter (1880) 3 times, Lovibond XB (1864), Pale Ale (1886) Joshua Tetley as well as numerous stouts and porters from similar periods. They do age exceptionally well, my Whitbread London Porter 1850 is nearly a year old and probably at it's best. BUT I rarely like to have a single pint, preferring 3 or 4 of a mild or bitter especially if I'm pottering around as well. I made an interpretation of Ringwood Old Thumper 90% Chevallier, 6% Torrified Wheat, 3% Crystal 150 ebc, 1% Chocolate malt. It's lovely, especially with a meal and more like a mug of Horlicks than a cup of tea. If I do it again. I'll leave out the crystal and the chocolate, though.


https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/victorian-bitter.89264/post-1006447https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/has-anyone-used-chevalier-malt.80025/post-980068

 

[jeg3]

By coincidence I am just working on adjusting my next batch of Old Hooky clone

I've got one on!

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/jeg3-brewdays.92624/post-1012242

 

[An Ankoù]

Here's a recipe that was given to me by a member of another forum so I can take no credit for it. Others, it seems have made up the recipe and praise it most highly. Ultimately it's an adaptation of a recipe by Chris Colby in his book "Methods of Modern Home Brewing". Two things attracted me to it: the amount of praise from other members; the fact that there's not too much crystal malt, which I find cloying. I should say that it's an all grain adaptation of an extract recipe called "Tolkein's Toothsome Ale". When I bottled it, 10 or so days ago, it certainly tasted the business.
15 litres : OG 1045 : FG 1012 : IBU 35
Maris Otter Simpson's 2.5 Kg
Biscuit Malt (Château) 50 ebc 250g
Crystal Malt Crisp's 155 ebc 150g
Crystal Malt Crisp's 220 ebc 50g
Target cones to 35 IBUs 10.7% a a 25g FWH
Challenger pellets 15g (13.7g as didn't want to open a new pkt) 5 mins
First Gold pellets 7.5g (8.8g to make up shortfall) 5 mins
First Gold pellets 10g flameout
1/3 tab protfloc 15 mins

Overnight mash at 65C (I prefer a slightly drier finish)
60' + 5' boil
Cooled and pitched with Young's Ale yeast 1½ sachets (7½g)
No water profile was suggested and as my tap water is more suited to Pilsner than bitter, I chucked in a good half teaspoonful of CaSO4 and a quarter teaspoonful of CaCl2.

 

[Galena]

I've got one on!

Interesting, I spent quite a lot of time researching and never came across that thread. I will take the time to go over your recipe in more detail a bit later. What was your water profile?
In my first batch I pretty much followed GW's recipe from the 3rd edition, the result was okay but not great, my second batch increased the malt and reduced the corn sugar drastically.
Since getting Roger Protz Real Ale Almanac he suggests some Mild Malt in there so I have ordered some Crisp Vienna to try. Protz also lists Golding as dry hopped, this is information he apparently got from the brewery.
This is backed up in this photo from the brewery tour, though no mention of mild malt here. I am not trying to make an exact clone as it will never taste quite the same anyway as I only bottle but it would be nice to get close.

 

[trueblue]

Here's a recipe that was given to me by a member of another forum so I can take no credit for it. Others, it seems have made up the recipe and praise it most highly. Ultimately it's an adaptation of a recipe by Chris Colby in his book "Methods of Modern Home Brewing". Two things attracted me to it: the amount of praise from other members; the fact that there's not too much crystal malt, which I find cloying. I should say that it's an all grain adaptation of an extract recipe called "Tolkein's Toothsome Ale". When I bottled it, 10 or so days ago, it certainly tasted the business.
15 litres : OG 1045 : FG 1012 : IBU 35
Maris Otter Simpson's 2.5 Kg
Biscuit Malt (Château) 50 ebc 250g
Crystal Malt Crisp's 155 ebc 150g
Crystal Malt Crisp's 220 ebc 50g
Target cones to 35 IBUs 10.7% a a 25g FWH
Challenger pellets 15g (13.7g as didn't want to open a new pkt) 5 mins
First Gold pellets 7.5g (8.8g to make up shortfall) 5 mins
First Gold pellets 10g flameout
1/3 tab protfloc 15 mins

Overnight mash at 65C (I prefer a slightly drier finish)
60' + 5' boil
Cooled and pitched with Young's Ale yeast 1½ sachets (7½g)
No water profile was suggested and as my tap water is more suited to Pilsner than bitter, I chucked in a good half teaspoonful of CaSO4 and a quarter teaspoonful of CaCl2.

You say you find to much crystal cloying you should try Simpsons double roast crystal. I have used it for several beers now and really like it. To me it gives me what I want from crystal and takes away what I don't want.

 

[BlackRegent]

Last time we traveled to England (8yrs back?) I was greatly disappointed to find most of the pubs to be way more commercial and missing a lot of the 'local' feel.

@Worf

I agree with this, but the traditional British pub is still very much alive (and I hope shall remain so post-Covid), but it may take a little more local knowledge to unearth them. If you want a guarantee of a more 'traditional' pub, look up where the nearest Samuel Smith's pub. The chain refuses to modernise, rarely serves food, bans mobile phones and live sport, all driven by its mercurial Chairman, Humphrey. There are quite a few of them in London (assuming that is where you visit) and I would recommend them all.

 

[An Ankoù]

You say you find to much crystal cloying you should try Simpsons double roast crystal. I have used it for several beers now and really like it. To me it gives me what I want from crystal and takes away what I don't want.

Ok, I've got some of that left over from a recipe I made ages ago. A quick googling of Simpson's website shows they recommend it for darker beers where the astringency from malts is not desirable.
Then they say this:
Beer Styles: Pale Ales, British Strong Ales, Belgian Abbey

All very confusing, but as I've not tried it in a lighter beer, it sounds very much worth a try. Thanks for the tip.

 

[peebee]

Steady on @peebee , …

Aye. I was having a moment of paranoia 'cos lots of folk were posting their "Bitter solutions" tainted with (in my mind) crippling high hop rates for a Bitter. So I posted mine with a crippling reminder that "one man's meat is another's poison", or mug of Horlicks if you prefer.

I hate Bitters with IBU rates above 30. Although my last two "Victorian bitters" were 42 and 38 respectively (but were strong at around 6% ABV, and moderated by time and Chevallier barley malt).

 

[trueblue]

Ok, I've got some of that left over from a recipe I made ages ago. A quick googling of Simpson's website shows they recommend it for darker beers where the astringency from malts is not desirable.
Then they say this:
Beer Styles: Pale Ales, British Strong Ales, Belgian Abbey

All very confusing, but as I've not tried it in a lighter beer, it sounds very much worth a try. Thanks for the tip.

As I said I have used it as a direct replacement in all my beers recently and the majority have been lighter beers.

 

[jeg3]

Interesting, I spent quite a lot of time researching and never came across that thread. I will take the time to go over your recipe in more detail a bit later. What was your water profile?
In my first batch I pretty much followed GW's recipe from the 3rd edition, the result was okay but not great, my second batch increased the malt and reduced the corn sugar drastically.
Since getting Roger Protz Real Ale Almanac he suggests some Mild Malt in there so I have ordered some Crisp Vienna to try. Protz also lists Golding as dry hopped, this is information he apparently got from the brewery.
This is backed up in this photo from the brewery tour, though no mention of mild malt here. I am not trying to make an exact clone as it will never taste quite the same anyway as I only bottle but it would be nice to get close.
View attachment 42957

Well my water is high in calcium, chloride and alkalinity (and medium sulphate), so need significant CRS addition which drives the sulphate up nicely, great for bitters, but it also drives chloride up quite high as well. This is the adjusted water profile, from Brewfather:

Ca 100 Mg 16 Na 41 Cl 145 SO4 228 HCO3 80

I've brewed this a few times, it is nice, but isn't an exact copy.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I use Simpsons MO in my bitter. Thinking about it, I’ve never used it in a pale ale, I use Minch pale ale malt for that.

 

[Galena]

Ca 100 Mg 16 Na 41 Cl 145 SO4 228 HCO3 80

Cheers, my original recipe was Ca 126, Mg9 Na 22 Cl: 91 SO4: 225, HCO3: 79
which is quite close to yours

I changed my second batch to Ca 150, Mg 10, Na 40 Cl 135 SO4 265 HCO3 18
there was a difference in taste but not sure how much was down to the water but I may go back to the original for this brew.

 

[Sadfield]

You say you find to much crystal cloying you should try Simpsons double roast crystal. I have used it for several beers now and really like it. To me it gives me what I want from crystal and takes away what I don't want.

Lovely stuff, I find this and Aromatic Malt, or combination of the two a nice alternative to a big dollop of medium crystal added to the grist.