The 'Osprey tries to set up to brew in a garage' thread

[TheOsprey]

I figure this is going to take a lot of questioning on my part, so I'm going to just start one thread rather than keep posting threads constantly.

I've decided, in my infinite wisdom, to set up for all grain brewing in my external garage, which has a single light bulb, no water supply and a double plug socket. My house is not really big enough to be brewing in, and it contains a 3 year old, which is not going to help either...

I posted on my local area social-media style app to request a fridge and have been given a 6 month old under counter fridge for free (!), and hopefully also have a mash tun and wort chiller on the way, with great thanks to Banbeer and Derren.

I'm currently trying to decide whether to make a turbo cider next or the 'simple AG' recipe, but I think the bottles are the most cost prohibitive part so far. I got on to the town's brewery in hope of getting some bottles (a Bedford brewery were giving away 300, but I missed it!) but unfortunately they don't bottle on site.

I also want to get an electric boiler (plastic or metal) to aid brewing in the garage rather than the kitchen, but having read another thread, I'm now concerned that my double power socket in the garage isn't going to be enough for all this, particularly as it already has a larder freezer connected to it, and the fermentation fridge will also be plugged in there. Electricians in the house - if I get some more double sockets installed, does that fix the problem? Or is it more complex than that?

Anyway, onward and upwards. Or sideways at least.

 

[Bedale Brewman]

I can recommend the 40l Buffalo boiler. Just have to fit a new ball valve tap and away you go.

Good luck

 

[foxbat]

A few more sockets will sort you out. You don't want to be running your boiler off extension leads or multi plug adapters.

Fridges and freezers are nothing to be concerned about - they only draw a low current. I usually replace the 13A fuse in their plugs with something much lower.

While you've got the electrician round it might be a good idea to ask him to put the garage sockets on their own RCD so you don't trip the whole house if something goes wrong.

 

[An Ankoù]

I've decided, in my infinite wisdom, to set up for all grain brewing in my external garage, which has a single light bulb, no water supply and a double plug socket.

For the 20+ years I was brewing in Poole, I had a double garage with power but no water. Got a proper distribution board and trips put in and used a permanent (buried) garden hose for my water supply. No problems.
And no infections as nothing else happened in the garage except brewing- no cooking, no food storage, no rotting fruit. Oh, and in the early days, we all smoked fags so that also kept the place well fumigated.

 

[jceg316]

I used to brew in my parents' garage. It had power but no water so I filled up buckets from the garden tap to measure out water volumes and when it came to cooling I ran a long hose from the tap to my wort chiller.

I started off with a Peco Electrim boiler which did quite a good job, it has a 2.4 KW element, then upgraded to stainless a steel boiler with the same sort of element in.

 

[terrym]

A few more sockets will sort you out. You don't want to be running your boiler off extension leads or multi plug adapters.

Fridges and freezers are nothing to be concerned about - they only draw a low current. I usually replace the 13A fuse in their plugs with something much lower.

While you've got the electrician round it might be a good idea to ask him to put the garage sockets on their own RCD so you don't trip the whole house if something goes wrong.

Part P electrical regs apply to any changes.
"All electrical installation work in a home, garden, conservatory or outbuilding must meet the Building Regulations".

 

[TheOsprey]

So I've just finished some extra work which is going to bring some money in and I'm now considering jacking it all in and just getting a Brewzilla (or similar). I feel like it'll save a lot of time (and possibly some money) over getting the whole setup and getting an electrician in.

A few more sockets will sort you out. You don't want to be running your boiler off extension leads or multi plug adapters.

Fridges and freezers are nothing to be concerned about - they only draw a low current. I usually replace the 13A fuse in their plugs with something much lower.

While you've got the electrician round it might be a good idea to ask him to put the garage sockets on their own RCD so you don't trip the whole house if something goes wrong.

Ah good to know the fridge won't be an issue. The garage is definitely running off its own RCD already - it's a new build and they wired up the garage as a favour to us after running over by 2 months!

For the 20+ years I was brewing in Poole, I had a double garage with power but no water. Got a proper distribution board and trips put in and used a permanent (buried) garden hose for my water supply. No problems.
And no infections as nothing else happened in the garage except brewing- no cooking, no food storage, no rotting fruit. Oh, and in the early days, we all smoked fags so that also kept the place well fumigated.

I was thinking of installing a permanent hose, but wasn't sure if it'd be OK for drinking.

I used to brew in my parents' garage. It had power but no water so I filled up buckets from the garden tap to measure out water volumes and when it came to cooling I ran a long hose from the tap to my wort chiller.

Yeah the 'long hose' will be my go to I think!

Part P electrical regs apply to any changes.
"All electrical installation work in a home, garden, conservatory or outbuilding must meet the Building Regulations".

Definitely not going to do it myself - I need to double check every time I wire a plug!

 

[cushyno]

It's not just how many sockets you have, the rating of the spur going to the garage must be high enough to carry the total load of all the sockets. Check your main fusebox/RCD. Mine is rated to 20A. That lets me run lighting in the form of a couple of strip lights, fridge, 10A for my boiler element and 12v 2A supply for a pump and fan.

A few old 5L Ashbeck water bottles filled at the start of brewday are used to fill the boiler and a washing bowl full of starsan for rinsing utensils. I also run a hose from an outside tap for immersion chiller which drains to buckets that have to be ferried back and forth to an outside drain.

It's worth the small inconvenience of managing water supplies for the hassle free day of keeping it all out of the family kitchen.

 

[TheOsprey]

It's not just how many sockets you have, the rating of the spur going to the garage must be high enough to carry the total load of all the sockets. Check your main fusebox/RCD. Mine is rated to 20A. That lets me run lighting in the form of a couple of strip lights, fridge, 10A for my boiler element and 12v 2A supply for a pump and fan.

A few old 5L Ashbeck water bottles filled at the start of brewday are used to fill the boiler and a washing bowl full of starsan for rinsing utensils. I also run a hose from an outside tap for immersion chiller which drains to buckets that have to be ferried back and forth to an outside drain.

It's worth the small inconvenience of managing water supplies for the hassle free day of keeping it all out of the family kitchen.

This suggests mine is rated to 22A? As I say, electrics isn't my area!

I also have a drain running the length of my garage, so may take out the cover and flow straight into there, assuming the heat won't damage it.

 

[cushyno]

I can't see from the pic what the rating is on your sockets, is that 16A?
Your lighting is on a different trip switch so you can factor that out.
A typical fridge could be 1.5A, a freezer might be 2.5A. so you still have 13A+ to play with.

So long as the electrician has wired accordingly from RCD to your double socket. Considering most boiler elements on sale in the uk, either in all-in-one or standalone boilers, are only rated at 10A (2400W ÷ 240V), you'll be safely inside the limit of your breaker.

 

[TheOsprey]

Thanks, that's really helpful.

 

[jceg316]

So I've just finished some extra work which is going to bring some money in and I'm now considering jacking it all in and just getting a Brewzilla (or similar). I feel like it'll save a lot of time (and possibly some money) over getting the whole setup and getting an electrician in.

I think getting a Brewzilla or similar sounds like a good way to go. If brewing is something you love it's the sort of kit which can last a really long time. Whilst I've not used a Brewzilla, I do have a Grainfather and kind of wished I had it from the start. It would have saved me money in the long run going from kit to kit.

 

[Drunkula]

It's not for everyone, but I use plastic fermenters for heating / boiling / mashing and just put a steel pan lid or dish in the bottom and then put them on an induction plate. After the mash you can move off the bucket and put on another to heat the sparge water or start the boil during the sparge.

I've got a Buffalo induction hob which pulses at under 1500 watts but the Tefal ones don't pulse. I wrap the fermenters and get a real rolling boil at 1500 watts.

Great thing is you can do any frying or chinese cooking in the shed, too, rather than smoke the house out.

 

[Plumb bob]

The problem with fridges and breakers versus fuses is the stall current and reaction time.
Motors on fridges and freezers have a high stall current when starting which with the addition of the 10A load on a 16A circuit may be enough to cause the breaker to trigger. Fuses are relatively slow to react and would tolerate the brief overload as would the wiring.
With that said, you mentioned that the fridge is fairly new; It may have a digital inverter to control the motor and this may control the starting current.
Fortunately a test is fairly easy, turn on everything you might use at the same time and then turn on the fridge and see what happens. It may be worth trying it a few times to be confident.

 

[kelper]

Please post an in-focus photo of your distribution board. And a closeup of the Hager 'switch'. When the work was done, the electrician should have given you a test report?

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

You mentioned no water supply. Don't use a garden hosepipe for water. Buy some water pipe and bury it if you can. It's not very expensive and all the fittings simply push together. Just make sure they're the ones for drinking (potable) water.

Garden hose will leach all sorts of nasties into your water over time.

 

[Cwrw666]

I run a boiler plus freezer off the single cable that comes out of the house no problem, but if you are worried about running everything on your current settup, just unplug the fridge and freezer while you do a brew (just remember to plug 'em back in afterwards!!!)

 

[TheOsprey]

So I finally got around to getting an inkbird and tube heater for the fridge. Haven't got round to wiring the tube heater through the drip hole yet - can't decide whether to rewire at plug or heater. I've got it going through the door at the moment.

People who say stick the probe to a bottle aren't joking. Hadn't done this, as I thought a degree or two couldn't hurt too much, and went to get a beer out today for my dad, on day 2 of carbonation at 19.5 degrees... And the bottles were fridge cold, with ice on the back of the fridge!

I've since strapped the probe to a bottle, and the temperature reading plummeted. Lesson learned.

Brewzilla should be coming soon!

 

[DCBC]

You mentioned no water supply. Don't use a garden hosepipe for water. Buy some water pipe and bury it if you can. It's not very expensive and all the fittings simply push together. Just make sure they're the ones for drinking (potable) water.

Garden hose will leach all sorts of nasties into your water over time.

Agree with this, and I buried my water supply to my shed at the required 750mm to be below the frost line. Where it comes in and out of the ground it is armaflexed for insulation.

However, I assume it would be OK not to bury a food safe plastic pipe as long as there are taps so are able to drain it off both ends - so that it can sit without water in it in between brew days in winter and not freeze.

 

[kelper]

If you drain the pipe then you should consider sanitising or flushing before use. When some water remains it makes perfect conditions for mould. And creepy crawlies.