The ongoing mystery of water treatment

[clibit]

I've been doing some further reading about water treatment, which always leaves me in a state of some confusion, partly due to my utterly non scientific brain and partly the way stuff is presented, scientific types being such hopeless communicators! And if I enter the same data into different water calculators I get different results. I've now realised there is no absolute right answer, when it comes to water additions.

A big step forward was made yesterday when I measured the alkalinity of my water for the first time, thanks to MyQul who very kindly sent me a spare testing kit he had. So I have better data to enter.

If I could now check my mash PH, I'd be in a good place, I think! I've also been reading about the sulfate to chloride ratio, and how sulfate increases the sense of bitterness, which I knew, and chloride increases maltyness/sweetness, which I kind of knew but not properly! I can taste that clearly in my last batch, I forgot the gypsum(sulfate), and it has a sweet maltyness and lower bitterness than expected. Anyway, I have all the data I need for my water apart from it's PH, and I understand better what effects mineral additions have, and will try different amounts and ratios to see what works. It'll be a slow drawn out process though.

I will try different sulfate:chloride balances for different styles. I came across this way of testing our personal preferences for this balance, which I may try. The testing kit actually contains the equipment needed, so cheers again MyQ!


http://accidentalis.com/archives/350

 

[HebridesRob]

I think water treatment is worth doing, it isn't as though it's all that hard. Some of the minerals, such as Calcium, can help with yeast growth too.

I used Magnesium Sulphate instead of Calcium Sulphate in the beer I made last Friday. I realised my mistake when I put everything away. Big oops! moment.

 

[MyQul]

In a similar way to you cibit with science subjects, when it comes to maths, I am a complete spoon so am finding getting my head around water treatment a slow process, but I am getting there (albeit painfully slowly)
I think one of the main things with water treatment, as I understand things so far, is to get your mash PH right which is 5.3 (although in GW's BYOBRA he states anything between 5.1 - 5.5 is ok). Mash PH will of course be detemined by firstly the Alkalinaty of your water so having the test kit is a first big step to finding out what your mash PH is. As I mentioned to you, I have ordered some narrow range ph strips from ebay so I can then test my mash PH after alkalinity adjustment of my water
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEER-pH-I...6-2-PACK-50-/161490468669?hash=item259994ff3d

They haven't arrived yet but I think they will help me quite a lot in my pursuit of making better Bitters.

 

[clibit]

My maths is ok, as long as it's not advanced stuff, it's the science that leaves me stuck in the blocks.

 

[clibit]

I read something yesterday about the Marble Brewery in Manchester. The brewer said in an interview that the Manchester water is from the Lakes and is very soft, which I know, and that the brewery adds sulphates to the water for pales and bitters, and nothing for dark beers. They use the water as it is. This was good to hear! I have brewed great dark beers without treating the water, but all the brewing wisdom indicates you need to add chloride and other stuff. So I'll probably revert back to the lazy approach. I now need to decide if gypsum is the only sulphate I need in pale beers. It probably is. In which case, bingo, simplicity itself! I'll just focus in on yeast strains and hone that aspect of my brewing.

 

[cheshirehomebrew]

Clibit, am not a million miles from you and I dont treat my water, I do know that we have one of the few water supplies in the country that doesnt contain flouride.

I believe a campden tablet in the water before boiling up will kill off the chlorine though

 

[clibit]

I do add Gypsum (calcium sulphate) to pale beers and will continue to do so, I believe it is necessary and I have detected a clear and positive difference from using it. I have occasionally also added Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom salts) and I need to decide whether that is worthwhile or not. I don't add much Mag Sulphate though, when I do, it's probably not enough to make any detectable difference. I know a lot of brewers only ever bother with gypsum, adding it to the mash and the boil, and it's looking like a good basic, but effective, approach. For those of us with soft water, any roads.

 

[Spapro]

Think I read on here there is some lab you can send a tap water sample to and for a modest fee they will tell you what beer styles will suit your water and other beer/water related info. Its my Birthday in November so could be a nice little present from the wife - here is your brewing water lab report my love !

Anybody got a link or some contact details ?

 

[clibit]

You should be able to get sufficient info about your water supply from your suppliers website. Certainly most of what you need anyway.

 

[Spapro]

Thanks Clibit, water is not an element of brewing I have yet got round to looking at - still got enough on my plate with BIAB and yeast !

Just looked and indeed I can get a lot of info from Yorkshire Waters site by entering my post code.

Tells me in summary our water is 'Slightly Hard, 50.7mg/l calcium'. Then there is a table which shows 'Calcium 40.6mg Ca/litre'. Bit confusing. Has lots more info.

I guess 'slightly hard' gets me started with an idea of possible treatments - will have to read up.

 

[YeastFace]

Is it the Murphy & Sons one?

 

[MyQul]

Think I read on here there is some lab you can send a tap water sample to and for a modest fee they will tell you what beer styles will suit your water and other beer/water related info. Its my Birthday in November so could be a nice little present from the wife - here is your brewing water lab report my love !

Anybody got a link or some contact details ?

I think your probably talking about Murphy and sons as yeastface mentioned

http://laboratory.murphyandson.co.uk/our-products/water/

Another forumite mentioned it cost £15 to get your water tested. Don't know if this correct though as there's no prices on the site.

I have a water report from them for one of the areas (Bermondsey) in SE London next to me in Peckham. A forumite obtained it from a micro brewery who comissioned it and forwarded it to me. I can forward it to you if you like. The data won't be of any use to you but you can have a look at what there reports look like

 

[stevej]

Water whats that i only drink beer :lol:

 

[BeerCat]

Clibit you can get ph test strips of ebay for �£1. I bought some to test my bodies acidity. After following what you and others have been saying about water treatment i bought some gypsum and calcium chloride. Now i realise they are alternatives and i meant to get some epsom salts as well.
As my water is pure i am hoping its just a matter of adding enough to get the correct ppm of whichever chemical it is i need.
My pale ales seem to be coming out well since i started putting gypsum in but it could just be coincidence or better recipes. I cant tell yet. Interesting subject. Cheers

 

[MyQul]

Clibit you can get ph test strips of ebay for ����£1. I bought some to test my bodies acidity.

Unforetunately there no good for us HBer. You need narrow range PH strips. I have some of these (which you can also get on ebay but a bit more expensive) they're far more accurate for what we need

 

[clibit]

My pale ales seem to be coming out well since i started putting gypsum in but it could just be coincidence or better recipes. I cant tell yet. Interesting subject. Cheers

Not coincidence I reckon, pales need gypsum it seems to me.

 

[BeerCat]

Well before i started to concentrate on the pale ales i was making up my own darker beer recipes. Some with Rauchmalz and i don't mind admitting they were in all honesty awful with the odd exception.
Didn't know about the PH strips but will get some. Had a cheap electric meter from China but was never consistent.

 

[trueblue]

You should be able to get sufficient info about your water supply from your suppliers website. Certainly most of what you need anyway.

Not worth bothering with, there reports are too generic. Even though they will tell you the report is for your postcode it is not. A brewing friend and myself, lives 6 miles away, requested reports and got the same answers. Later we had it laboratory tested and had significant differences.

 

[clibit]

Not worth bothering with, there reports are too generic. Even though they will tell you the report is for your postcode it is not. A brewing friend and myself, lives 6 miles away, requested reports and got the same answers. Later we had it laboratory tested and had significant differences.

That's interesting, thanks. I think I'm going to keep my water simple though, the Marble brewery water is going to be the same as mine, I'm sure, and if zero treatment for dark beers and sulphates for pales and bitters works for them, that's good enough for me! Their beers are bloody good.

 

[MyQul]

That's interesting, thanks. I think I'm going to keep my water simple though, the Marble brewery water is going to be the same as mine, I'm sure, and if zero treatment for dark beers and sulphates for pales and bitters works for them, that's good enough for me! Their beers are bloody good.

It's SO much easier not having to faff about with water treatment. My dark beer dont' need it because London water is great for Stouts/Porters/Mild. I'm going to continue acidifying my bitters for a while but having read your posts about just using gypsum I think I might do an experiment whith making a beer that I have used previously acidified the water and added a gypsum addition to make it and make the exact same beer but just add the same amount of gypsum. Then compare, to see what, if any difference there is.