The Home Brew Twang

[Barticus]

So far Ive bottled 3 brews.

Coopers Australian --- Bottled 6 weeks
St Peters Ruby Red --- Bottled 3.5 weeks
Woodfordes Wherry --- Bottled 9 days

All three have that Home Brew Twang and its sort of calling into question the point in brewing kits. The first two were made with bottled water, the second tap and all brews have fermented at around 20c - 22c. I would say that cleaning and sterilisation has been well handled.

I appreciate some of these are relatively young, but I dont see everyone talking about this twang. Do all kits get it and does it always go or do some of you just accept it as par for the course.

Does the same twang appear in Extract, biab or AG?

You would think that with the amount of people doing kits, this problem would be identified and resolved much easier. I bet a lot of new brewers get to this stage and give up.

Any newbies finding the same or pros who have sussed this out?

 

[Dunfie]

There is always going to be a certain twang about a kit that is simply part of the process. So many factors are outside your control - quality and age of the extract, the hop resins used, the viability of the yeast etc. I had a decent result with a Wherry I brewed a couple of years back but sitting it beside my AG you could tell it was a kit.

If you go extract and do a partial mash and use fresh hops you will find a big step up in quality. I have had a really good couple of examples from AbeyPTFC and although there is still a slight tang from the extract I really enjoyed them.

 

[Springer]

:thumb: what Dumfie says.
Most start with kits and I don't think many go back to them. :) Should be nothing wrong with them if thats what you want, for minimum effort.
Your fermentation temperature could have been a little high maybe?
Don't give up, follow the advice.
S

 

[calumscott]

+1 on the temp, try to get that down to 18 degrees, remember that the temperature at the core of your beer may well be a few degrees warmer than the air temp.

You are also a bit young on all of those:

Coopers is a one-can kit and will always be of a lesser quality than the two can kits and so will need a lot longer to condition. The one cans I've done only really get reasonable after three months plus.

Your two can kits really need at least two months in the bottle before they're drinkable.

They would all benefit from a LOT longer in the bottle.

I've just about finished drinking the last of my RRA and Wherry and now, after about 4 months on each they are really very nice. The RRA was deemed better than the commercial bottles by two independent judges (SWMBO and her mate) in a blind taste test and the Wherry is simply one of the best beers going (except for the 20% or so bottles which steadfastly refuse to carbonate...).

How long are you giving them in FV before bottling?
Do you rack to a secondary to take it off the yeast?

What's the rest of your process?

 

[graysalchemy]

All bottled conditioned beer benifits from 2-3 months in the bottle :thumb: :thumb:

Brewing is a waiting game :lol: :lol:

 

[calumscott]

All bottled conditioned beer benifits from 2-3 months in the bottle :thumb: :thumb:

Brewing is a waiting game :lol: :lol:

It certainly is when you are curtailed in space for brewing and storage...

...I'm getting very twitchy and running very low on conditioned stocks on account of having brewed some long conditioners (two Brewferms, Christmas and Grand Cru) the earliest of which I reckon might be ready the middle of September!

I can't wait to be able to build a proper back stock of beer rather than this "just in time" brewing... :lol:

 

[The Goatreich]

I did four kits before turning to the dark side (all grain). Out of those two of them had a terrible tang, and the other two were fine. The two that were good were Woodeford's Wherry and Cooper's Irish Stout. However I did find that after around 5 months in the bottle the Cooper's Mexican Cerveza's tang had all but disappeared.

I think in my limited experience, and as mentioned above, it's something that you need to accept with one can kit brewing, and if you can wait a decent length of time before opening the bottles you should find that it's a lot better.

I haven't had a hint of homebrew tang since I started AG brewing though :)

 

[Springer]

Yes time, storage and stock. :lol:
My son in law does kits and he produces some respecable stuff, try a Wherry that was my first and only kit, was fine but then went extract and quickly on to AG
Just been down the brewery to do a small trial APA, but there were tons of flying things, don't fancy immersion cooling in those conditions, :hmm: could up scale it and make it worthwhile to get out the counter flow cooler. That would help the stock situation.
Anyone else worry about flying stuff. :?
S

 

[graysalchemy]

Yes they seam to be about at the moment. I think I read the trick is to keep the place scrupulously clean get rid of overflowed wort on FV's etc keep bins empty etc.

 

[JordanB]

How have your carbonation levels been ? I mean how much sugar did you use to prime ? I have put my twang down to over carbonation causing carbonic acid.

 

[jonnymorris]

As has been mentioned...

1. Fermentation temp, esp. at the start, has a big effect. Aim for 18degC and be aware that fermentation is exothermic.

2. Don't rush to bottle. I leave mine for 2 weeks to ferment plus a third to clear.

This helped me reduce the kit twang in the past but, ultimately, a kit beer will never be good as a freshly made one.

 

[Barticus]

Thanks for all the replies but I still find it all very confusing.

Posters like Dunfie saying kits will always have the twang and then other posters saying that some do and others dont. Then a whole batch of other posters who happily express there joy at their own finished kit products with very little conditioning time.

My process now usually involves fermenting for 10 -14 days and then several days in a second FV off the yeast. Then into a priming bucket for bulk priming and bottling with 90g sugar.

My main area of concern is the temperature, however again other posters are pretty much saying that no matter how well your process is the twang will still be there to some degree.

At the end of the day Beer quality is more important and I hope(d) it was possible to achieve decent results from kits, particularly two can.

I will of course give the bottled stuff more time to condition but Im by no means convinced so far.

Am I right in thinking that the "twang" is virtually unheard of in AG?

 

[JordanB]

Thanks for all the replies but I still find it all very confusing.

Posters like Dunfie saying kits will always have the twang and then other posters saying that some do and others dont. Then a whole batch of other posters who happily express there joy at their own finished kit products with very little conditioning time.

My process now usually involves fermenting for 10 -14 days and then several days in a second FV off the yeast. Then into a priming bucket for bulk priming and bottling with 90g sugar.

My main area of concern is the temperature, however again other posters are pretty much saying that no matter how well your process is the twang will still be there to some degree.

At the end of the day Beer quality is more important and I hope(d) it was possible to achieve decent results from kits, particularly two can.

I will of course give the bottled stuff more time to condition but Im by no means convinced so far.

Am I right in thinking that the "twang" is virtually unheard of in AG?

you are correct AG brews will be on par if not better than your pub quality stuff , not an AG brewer myself but i know a few who frequent my homebrew shop. I think the thing with us kit brewers is that they is only so much we can do and control , the rest is down to fate and purely out of our hands.

 

[Jeltz]

Can anyone define what is meant by "the twang"? The one kit I have done, albeit not cleared yet, tastes as good to me as many pub bought draft bitters.

Its possibly a little more bitter than most but I like that and it was brewed with Muntons Brewkit enhancer so that might have improved it but if I was served it in a pub I would happily drink it all evening.

 

[JordanB]

My experience with the ' twang ' it was like a sharp after taste . Not really unpleasant and if my beer wasnt over carbed I'd probably have still drank it. But is still noticeable nonetheless.

 

[Barticus]

Can anyone define what is meant by "the twang"? The one kit I have done, albeit not cleared yet, tastes as good to me as many pub bought draft bitters.

Its possibly a little more bitter than most but I like that and it was brewed with Muntons Brewkit enhancer so that might have improved it but if I was served it in a pub I would happily drink it all evening.

I cant really describe it myself but all 3 of my kits to date have it. Googling "Home Brew Twang" reveals that its well discussed in forums all over the world. It just seems odd that no one seems to have narrowed it down to one thing in particular. As the taste / twang is the same taste in three different kits then surely there is one cause?

If I had three different off tastes I could understand different causes but the same taste every time indicates one cause I would have thought.

:wha:

 

[calumscott]

THBT is purported to come about from the additional processes that kit brews have to go through to make your brewing life easy.

Taking it from the top:

AG:
You produce a wort at, give or take, the gravity into which you will pitch your yeast, it is hopped at its full length boiled cooled and fermented.

Extract
Mashing is done to produce unhopped wort which is then concentrated and canned (or completely dried in the case of DME). You reconstitute, hop, boil, cool and ferment. The part of the process which is different is that your fermentible sugar has the majority of the water removed, then replaced, then it's the same as AG.

Two can kit
Mashing, hopping and boiling is done, then the resulting wort is condensed such that two cans have all the flavour and sugar you'd expect in 40 pints of wort. You reconstitute and ferment. So not only is the sugar condensed, the bittering and aroma hop chemicals are too.

One can kit
As per the two can kit but with all the bittering and aroma for 40 pints but usually around half the sugars. You add extra sugar (sugar, dextrose, DME or LME), reconstitute and ferment. So not only is the sugar condensed to the same degree as the two can kit, the hop flavours must be condensed to DOUBLE the degree.


Basically the thinking is that subtle changes or perhaps force off-flavours are caused by the concentration and other manufacturing processes applied to get your wort in a tin. Canning is also, I understand, hot-canning which is done so they don't have to sterilise the packaging - that extra heating step could also have an effect.

There is a marketing claim by Better Brew and Ritchies who make squidgy bag kits that their cold-filling process is kinder to the wort concentrate and should get you a better end product. There are also the Brewers Spring kits which are condensed to only 7.5 litres which, again, should reduce any off-flavours from the concentrating process.

Add to that, the fact that nearly all the kit manufacturers market on how easy and quick kits are to do. The reality is very different, like any home brewed beer, time is absolutely of the essence. More so when your ingredients have been adulterated to the extent that kits have!

To get a decent result from a kit is really quite straight forward.

- Buy quality. Better Brew, Woodfordes, Muntons Gold, etc are all decent.
- Apply excellent brewing rigour. Sterilise, rinse, treat water, have patience, stop peeking, have more patience... Make sure you eliminate oxygenation in any transfer steps. Make sure your temperature is right and stable.
- Tweek them. Get some appropriate hops for the style and add a hop tea or a dry-hop. That makes one hell of a difference.
- Use the best additional products. Don't use sugar for one can kits, use DME (spraymalt) or LME instead. If you want a really crisp pilsner, use dextrose not sucrose etc.
- Bottle, don't keg.
- Condition properly. Two weeks in the warm to carb then at least a week for every ten points of gravity dropped. AT LEAST! Aim for three months before you open a bottle.

You WILL get beer that people won't believe you brewed yourself.

Anyway, What is THBT?

For me, I'm pretty sure, given that is it a bitterness in the aftertaste that clearly isn't a desirable bitterness it's likely a by-product of the concentration and canning processes + the over hopping required to get enough flavour into a one can kit which is easily amplified by less than perfect water, additional ingredients, technique and impatience.

...but then I'm just speculating...

 

[JordanB]

Great post Calum very informative saved it thank you mate :-)

 

[Steveicky]

I was brewing from Kits for many years and have to say that the twang was usually detectable in varying levels. However, as others say, the quality kits like Wherry can give very good results.

The key areas that I found helped kits peform well were:
1. Start with a quality 2 can kit.
2. Do not use cane sugar.
3. Watch the fermentation temperature.

If you have sensitive taste buds, not everyone does, then you may need to move away from kits. My advice would be to get comfortable with Kits and start reading up on All Grain brewing, as the results cannot be compared. You can DIY a lot of the bits and pieces you need for AG brewing, so it is not necessarily as expensive as you might think.

 

[Pearlfisher]

My definition of twang is that it's a beer that tastes like no other beer you've ever drank in a pub ,which was always the case with beers I brewed 30 years ago using single can kits and cane sugar.