The Home Brew Twang

[Aleman]

Calum covered it pretty well, I feel that the majority of the 'Tang' comes from the mistreatment of the wort during boiling . . . which is done under vacuum so it never really boils anyway (at least not at 100c . . .more like 60-65C). This means that the enzymes may still be active, they don't get a proper hot break . . . hop utilisation is dire (or non existent) so they use pre isomerised hop extracts and not real hops.

LME has a definite shelf life as once this is exceeded THT becomes rather apparent, one reason for me looking for the freshest kits on the LHBS shelf :) DME doesn't appear to have this problem . . . If you can use lots of it, get a 15Kg Jerry can of Muntons Cedarex, which is an excellent extract, and as retailers don't keep it in stock . . . they have to get it direct from Muntons so it is fresh. . . use within a couple of months and you shouldn't have any trace of THT.

The other critical component is yeast, its a generic ale yeast supplied with most kits, and generally not enough to ensure a really good fermentation. Ditch it for a named brand like Nottingham / Windsor or Safale US-05/SO4 where at least you have enough to get a good fermentation, with little lag time. I have noticed a 'bitter' flavour from my beers that still have a high yeast load, once the beer clears the flavour fades away. Generic ale yeasts don't really clear that well.

 

[Jeltz]

Well I know that I have differing tastes from many people, some of the thinks I like others hate and vice versa!

I'll no doubt end up doing AG brewing, better start building up a paypal war chest now!

 

[Springer]

Top thread. :thumb:
Lots of knowledge flowing
S

 

[Barticus]

Some great replies guys and I will of course take on board the great advice.

The bottom line however seems to be that nobody can pinpoint the cause of this twang and that's the bit that really irritates me :hmm:

The processing of kits seems a red herring as many posters are very complimentary of their end product and dont mention the "twang".

I have used tap water and mineral water so no culprit there.

Others have brewed at similar or higher temperatures yet still love their end product.

I would also rule out air getting in or general fiddling as I have become more stricter with each kit and the "twang" has been apparent in hydrometer samples taken directly from the fv tap.

Im sure more conditioning will improve the taste, however many people are loving their end product after a few weeks.

In conclusion its really halted my enjoyment of the hobby and other than a current brew that is in the FV I feel that there is little point in simply creating more stock of product that I am not going to enjoy drinking.

Time to save up :twisted:

 

[The Goatreich]

I think it's almost definitely down to varying kit quality. In general two can kits are better than one, but also you could buy 4 of the same kit and sometimes get tang, other times not.

 

[graysalchemy]

The quality of malt extract does vary from kit to kit. But I also read on one manufacturers website that the malt extract is mixed and actually comes from different sources around the world and not produced in one batch for that kit. Some there is more scope for inconsistency. I would aggree with aleman in that the processing to concentrate the wort must have an effect on the quality.

Finally aging of any beer makes a great deal of difference :thumb: :thumb:

 

[jonnymorris]

Time to save up :twisted:

£15 will buy you a 15 litre stock pot that will get you into extract brewing.

 

[Barticus]

Time to save up :twisted:

£15 will buy you a 15 litre stock pot that will get you into extract brewing.

Thing is Dunfie on page 1 says that you still get the twang albeit to a lesser extent with Extract.

If I am going to brew I want the end product to be excellent otherwise I might as well just buy in what I like. I do love the brewing but the beer has to be good.

 

[graysalchemy]

I started with extract brewing and I didn't notice any twang. It was quite good however my AG brewing is better but that may be because IO have honed my craft. It is definately worth doing extract before moving on onto all grain. I would take alemans advice on extract it seems a good explanation and reason. :thumb:

 

[Aleman]

Dunfie on page 1 says that you still get the twang albeit to a lesser extent with Extract.

If I am going to brew I want the end product to be excellent otherwise I might as well just buy in what I like. I do love the brewing but the beer has to be good.

:hmm: :hmm:
To a certain extent what Dunfie has said is true, however, you can make excellent high quality beers from extract, that are completely free from THT. As I said earlier if you get hold of the freshest possible extracts and use good quality yeast you will produce good beer.

Muntons Cedarex 'B' is a great commercial extract that most retailers will go to Brupaks for (which makes it expensive). Brupaks are unlikely to hold it in stock so it will come from Muntons (possibly direct to the shop) which means you are using very fresh extract. 25Kg jerry cans of Premium extract are also available from Rob the Malt Miller for 67quid, expensive?? Not really considering that you will use 3-4Kg per 23L brew

Remember that most extracts do not get a true boil (They are boiled under vacuum), so do not achieve a proper hot break, which means a greater amount of tannins and proteins in solution, this on it's own can impart a bitter harsh astringent taste. The same is also true of the vast majority of kit concentrates, I believe the Barons Kits are single mash worts, boiled properly and then vacuum concentrated to 7.5L which means they should be truly excellent (I have one to try just waiting for me to find my temperature controller). So when you boil your diluted extract with the hops you remove the vast majority of tannins and proteins from the extract.

I am always dubious about doing a partial boil and then topping up to your final volume, and would suggest if possible that you boil the total volume (Difficult on a kitchen stove) but it is not hard to put an element in a pot. With one pot brewing you can always use the Brew In A Bag method of all grain brewing, if extract does not meet your expectations.

There are a lot of extract brewers in the Craft Brewing Association and I am probably going to join them after brewing a few kits. I should add that I tried to brew all grain Lagers for years quite unsuccessfully, it was only when I turned to extract that I was actually successful, and if any beer is going to show a flaw it is a pils type lager.

 

[Barticus]

Okay fellas thanks again. I will go and research extract and see what the process is and what equipment I need.

Hopefully theres a decent How To knocking around.

 

[Aleman]

I should also point out that Hamstead Homebrew are importing Breiss Extracts from the US, which gives us access to a wider range of high quality speciality extracts for more interesting brews.

 

[JordanB]

[/quote] In conclusion its really halted my enjoyment of the hobby and other than a current brew that is in the FV I feel that there is little point in simply creating more stock of product that I am not going to enjoy drinking.

Time to save up :twisted:[/quote]
What you said there is exactly how I'm feeling at the moment :-(

 

[Barticus]

In conclusion its really halted my enjoyment of the hobby and other than a current brew that is in the FV I feel that there is little point in simply creating more stock of product that I am not going to enjoy drinking.

Time to save up :twisted:[/quote]
What you said there is exactly how I'm feeling at the moment :-([/quote]

Well this might cheer you up :thumb:

Found a fella on Youtube taking you through the whole extract process and my initial reaction is it looks very simple and good fun. :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCqRH-fFRP8&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_166a3hQoQc&feature=plcp

Theres more videos as he takes you through sterilising and adding the wort to the FV etc but these two seem the main one.

I just now really need one of you kind extract brewers to confirm that this guys procedure is roughly what extract is all about.

IE:

He adds some grain to a muslim bag and places it in 2 gallon of water in a stock pot on the cooker and brings it the boil. He then removes the grain and adds the long boil hops in a muslim bag that produce the bitter taste, then later adds the short boil hops in a muslim bag that produce the aroma and taste. He then crash cools it in a sink full of ice before adding it to the FV where he has already placed another 2 gallon of water. Next he basically does what we do with kits and adds the yeast and aerates.

I appreciate some of you might have a slightly different approach but as a basic understanding of extract brewing, is this correct?

edit: And he added the extract!!! :rofl:

I have also watched a biab video today and that looks very tempting (and pretty easy) as well. Oh decisions decisions :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlz_858o ... el&list=UL

 

[Barticus]

Well today I bottled my latest Kit which is about 3 weeks old, a Coopers Real Ale.

Took a sip and once again that awful tang was present and correct. I was tempted to chuck it straight down the sink but instead its bottled and will go to the back of the shed with the other stuff.

Definitely the last kit I do. BIAB for me when I get the stuff together and pray that turns out without this crappy taste.

Gutted

 

[Pearlfisher]

Well today I bottled my latest Kit which is about 3 weeks old, a Coopers Real Ale.

Took a sip and once again that awful tang was present and correct. I was tempted to chuck it straight down the sink but instead its bottled and will go to the back of the shed with the other stuff.

Definitely the last kit I do. BIAB for me when I get the stuff together and pray that turns out without this crappy taste.

Gutted

What did you add to the kit?

 

[puravida]

My homebrew 'twang' disappeared the day I started using Star San.

 

[Barticus]

Well today I bottled my latest Kit which is about 3 weeks old, a Coopers Real Ale.

Took a sip and once again that awful tang was present and correct. I was tempted to chuck it straight down the sink but instead its bottled and will go to the back of the shed with the other stuff.

Definitely the last kit I do. BIAB for me when I get the stuff together and pray that turns out without this crappy taste.

Gutted

What did you add to the kit?

Just the coopers brew enhancer.

 

[Barticus]

My homebrew 'twang' disappeared the day I started using Star San.

Well that's probably the only thing that has remained constant through all brews.

Im pretty much set on BIAB so I'll get some of that as well. :thumb:

 

[puravida]

It's magic!!