The dreaded Muntons stuck ferment?

[Steved53]

Hi Everyone,

What's the general consensus with this?

It is the first time I have tried this kit - Muntons Conkerwood, although I have had a lot of success in the last few years with other Premium Gold kits - Midas Touch and Smugglers Ale in the main. I haven't even bothered to take a hydrometer reading with these kits previously, and have never had a problem.

I even went to the extent of fitting a pid control on the fridge/heating, in order to keep the fmentation temperature spot on. I oxygenated the wort as normal, it started as normal, and activity was normal for a week at the lower end of the temperature range. After one week I moved the temperature up to 19.5*C for another week.After two weeks I decided to try a sample, and I thought it was too sweet. I decided to dust off the old hydrometer and this is the reading I have got:

The hydrometer should be read at 60*F, so by my reckoning this is pretty close to 1020, as against the expected 1014. Do you agree? Do you think a little repitching is in order?

Another quick question. What does the dark line to the right of the 10 represent at 1006?

Steve

 

[Sandimas]

Looks like a stuck brew to me :-(

Like you, I've had good success with the Premium Gold kits (Midas Touch and Smugglers) but have had issues with many of their other kits sticking. Some say it's due to ther measly quantity of yeast with some kits, I know Wherry doesn't come with a full 11g packet of yeast but can't remember with the others.

I think your stuck brew has happened partially due to fermenting at the lower end of the temp range, I've found that getting it up a bit higher (19/20) helps prevent a stuck brew, as does adding a teaspoon or two of yeast nutrient at the start.

I've stuggled to shift stuck brews, and have never succeeded with re-pitching a new yeast: I guess most of the fermentables have already been used up. I'd whack the temp right up to 22/23, give it a good stir, and add 100-200g of brewing sugar dissolved in a little hot water to try to give it a good re-start. This has worked for me in the past.

And yes, the dark line looks like 1006.

 

[clibit]

I would never pitch just a 5/6/7g pack of yeast into 5 gallons myself. It's not enough yeast according to all the brewing wisdom out there, it doesnt make sense, and I don't understand why Muntons has still done nothing about it. If you buy a Muntons kit, buy an extra yeast sachet. Or email Muntons and say your brew has stuck and you won't buy any more kits that don't have enough yeast.

Give it to them straight, like a pear cider that's made from 100% pear. :thumb:

 

[terrym]

+1 on what darrellM has said.
Although I've never tried it myself on a stuck brew, if you do decide to repitch, I would have thought you have a better chance of success if you get the yeast working before you chuck it in. I have started to do this at the start of a primary by adding the dried yeast to about 200ml cooled boiled water with a pinch of nutrient at about 30*C in a pre-sterilised jug, covering with film, leaving for 30 mins, then stirring in about one level tsp sugar until dissolved and then leaving covered for another 30 minutes. By then the yeast is going well. This with the 100-200g sugar boost might work.
Hope you get it going again whatever you do.

 

[McMullan]

I'm starting to think this is a common problem. I don't use kits, but I remember one or two members on this site advising folk to ditch the yeast that's included with kits. All I can say is that it's more often a problem associated with the yeast.

Have a look here for possible solutions.

 

[clibit]

Yes the condition of kit yeast is another problem. And sticking a half size packet to a tin that then sits on a shelf for a while is a recipe for poor fermentation. Ditch the yeast.

Maybe go further and ditch kits! With DME, a little soaked crystal malt, some hops and a good yeast you can make better beer, IMO.

 

[McMullan]

Yes the condition of kit yeast is another problem. And sticking a half size packet to a tin that then sits on a shelf for a while is a recipe for poor fermentation. Ditch the yeast.

Maybe go further and ditch kits! With DME, a little soaked crystal malt, some hops and a good yeast you can make better beer, IMO.

I used to have a loose, unsubstantiated theory that kits were designed by big breweries to make their beer taste better than ours :lol:

 

[Cwrw666]

I made a Conkerwood last year and like yours it stuck at 1020. I tried stirring it to rouse the yeast and got the temperature up with a heat pad but if I remember correctly I only got it going again by chucking in a packet of amylase enzyme that I got off ebay. Amylase converts non fermentable sugars into fermentable ones. Eventually it got down to 1016 so I bottled it at that and after conditioning it was a drinkable brew, bit of a strange flavour but quite nice once I got used to it.
Since then I've switched to all-grain. Which I'd recommend to anyone if you've got the time to do it, though I appreciate not everyone has.

 

[pms67]

I made a Conkerwood also and never bothered to take any readings,beer ended up tasting strange,sweet like it hadnt fermented out properly and more than half the bottles were gushers,apart from that it wasnt bad :)

 

[terrym]

Yes the condition of kit yeast is another problem. And sticking a half size packet to a tin that then sits on a shelf for a while is a recipe for poor fermentation. Ditch the yeast.

I think this is a Muntons yeast problem and would go with above.
However I have not had a problem with any of the Coopers kits I have done. They usually get going pretty quickly and attenuate predictably i.e to about 72%.

 

[clibit]

I think this is a Muntons yeast problem and would go with above.
However I have not had a problem with any of the Coopers kits I have done. They usually get going pretty quickly and attenuate predictably i.e to about 72%.

Agreed, not all kits and their yeasts are equal. Bit worrying that Coopers yeast travels from the other side of the world but is more reliable than Muntons kit yeast. These same problems don't seem to occur when people buy the Muntons yeasts separately. Do they use a different yeast in the kits? Anyone any idea what their kit yeast is? Is it the same yeast in every kit? Or do two can kits get premium gold and one can kits get the standard yeast? Do one can kits stick for just two can?

 

[Steved53]

Thanks for all the responses guys. The thing that is pissing me off a little (a bit more than a little actually) is that I wanted something ready for Christmas and my birthday! There is a dearth of good beer around here, and I was looking forward to having something decent to drink.

I would have bought Smugglers, but it wasn't in stock, so I bought Conkerwood and American IPA (2 kits of each). I got the 4 IPA cans into the hot water, and only then noticed that one of the (exceedingly small!) sachets of yeast was missing. So, a quick change of plan, and I brewed the Conkerwood - both kits. So far, even ignoring the stuck fermentation, I'm not that impressed. It's probably just not my favourite style of beer.

Anyway, these were only to be a stop gap, as I am in the process of making quite a considerable investment in this hobby. I am just about finalising plans to purchase the 50 litre Braumeister with all the accessories and a couple of 100 litre jacketed fermenters from Willis European.

I am awaiting delivery of a 2 litre Erlenmeyer flask, in order to try and put into practice some of the things I have read in White and Zainasheff's book 'Yeast - The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation'. The computer fan has been removed, I have ordered some magnets and the 12 volt transformer has been sourced from my 'transformer bag' - so the stir plate is not that far off!

Just think of me, though, on Christmas Day without a beer to drink!

Mind you, I have 20 litre of cider on the go, which might end up saving the day. I rehydrated a sachet of Mangrove Jack's cider yeast and pitched that and, believe it or not, that went off exceptionally slowly as well. I bottled out and gave it a bit of a rousing and pitched some SO4 - just in case!

So thanks for all the advice, and I'll definitely be doing yeast starters from now on. It just seems the right thing to do.

 

[McMullan]

Follow clibit to the dark side, keep the yeast happy and you won't look back :thumb:

 

[Slid]

I made a Conkerwood also and never bothered to take any readings,beer ended up tasting strange,sweet like it hadnt fermented out properly and more than half the bottles were gushers,apart from that it wasnt bad :)

Sounds like a classic case of yeast that was stressed by either too high a ferment temp or too few viable cells at pitching.

The Muntons yeast will the same for all kits, I reckon. Makes no sense whatsoever to have an "A" yeast and a "B" yeast, since the cost of maintaining them is going to be identical and doubled with x2.

Its principal problems are being in too small a sachet and too many of the kits being stored a retail temps (20C+) for longer than is good for the yeast.

If I ever were to trust this yeast again, it would be using my quite numerous sachets in pairs, or by doing a simple starter with DME.

clibit seems to think the yeast is essentially OK and there are few on the Forum with more gravitas on such matters.

 

[Steved53]

Thanks Slid.

Well, definitely not too high a temperature, as I used my brewing fridge for the first time, with pid controller. Kept the temp to within .2*C. I've never tried a darker Muntons beer before, and to be honest I've never tested the SG in a very long time. I just normally time the bubbles at the start of fermentation, through to maximum activity, and then the gentle reduction to the end. Not very scientific, but it has worked very well in the past, and has kept things simple.

I am now wanting to up my game - hence the 'fermenting chamber', and the use of the hydrometer. I am wanting to get into all grain brewing, and I want repeatable results, not just decent beer.

I have upped the temp to 23 degrees for a few days, and I gave it a bit of a rousing at the same time. I am just going to take a sample in order the check the SG, to see whether it has moved following the 'recent intervention'.

Does anyone use a refractometer to check the finishing gravity? I currently use Speidel fermenters with a tap, and like to leave well alone, until it is time to transfer to a secondary or a corny keg. Taking out sufficient liquid to fill a trial jar inevitably means an introduction of air to the vessel. Maybe not a huge problem, but something I would like to avoid. I can manage to take out small samples without introducing any air at all - plenty for a refractometer. Never used one though.

Steve.

 

[McMullan]

Does anyone use a refractometer to check the finishing gravity? I currently use Speidel fermenters with a tap, and like to leave well alone, until it is time to transfer to a secondary or a corny keg. Taking out sufficient liquid to fill a trial jar inevitably means an introduction of air to the vessel. Maybe not a huge problem, but something I would like to avoid. I can manage to take out small samples without introducing any air at all - plenty for a refractometer. Never used one though.

Steve.

Don't worry about introducing O2, mate. The yeast would deal with any O2 that might get in there. I use the 30L Speidel FVs. They have plenty of head space for a big CO2 'blanket' :thumb: I think hydrometers are easier and more accurate, TBH. Refractometers are good for the pre fermentation side of things, wort.

 

[Steved53]

Don't worry about introducing O2, mate. The yeast would deal with any O2 that might get in there. I use the 30L Speidel FVs. They have plenty of head space for a big CO2 'blanket' :thumb: I think hydrometers are easier and more accurate, TBH. Refractometers are good for the pre fermentation side of things, wort.

Thanks McMullan. Good to know.

Well, the good news is the gravity seems to be coming down slowly. The bad news is that for the second time whilst slowly trying to fill my test jar in order to not flood the vessel with air, I opened up the tap fully when the jar was full, instead of turning it off! Big mess! So this is the reading now. The only problem is the temp is 23 degrees, so not quite what it seems. Seems to taste a bit better. I just don't think these Muntons yeasties celebrate Christmas! They have no sense of urgency!

Ok I give up. How do I post a photo from a pc? The other one I posted from my ipad or iphone.

 

[Sandimas]

As has been mentioned previously, the Muntons yeast packet is just too small for the volume of beer. I use Wherry as a base for 10L experimental brews (1 of the cans in each brew) and use the whole packet in one of these, never had a problem.

Don't know why Muntons just don't add a small increase in price and supply a full packet of yeast, this problem has been known about and all over the homebrew forums for years.

 

[wfr42]

Does rehydrating the yeast help with muntons kits?

I was also given the advice to stir kits for 2 mins before pitching to ensure the wort is thoroughly aerated.

 

[clibit]

Stirring is helpful, whisking is good, shaking even better. Needs a tight lid!