The Coronavirus thread.

[MyQul]

I have had to stop before i have a massive rant

The virus has shed some light into some rather dark corners

 

[Rodcx500z]

Anybody heard anything about Mr austarity George Osbourn he is keeping a low profile and Mrs May, shut up have a beer and go to bed i will

 

[Spinningwoman]

A good news story on 5 live today.

I will give the very cut down version.

Blokes wife gets Covid-19 and is taken to hospital by ambulance, deteriorates rapidly over next 24 hours and husband told multiple organs failing and no chance of surviving, husband and young kids are allowed to say final goodbye and after husband asks doctor if there is anything he could do even if experimental, doctor said he had heard of some people reacting well to being placed on their stomachs for several hours husband said do it, 48 hours later doctor called to tell him she had improved a little and several weeks later she is doing well.

Doctor told husband she was the poorlyest person in the whole hospital the day they visited.

JK Rowling shared a video she found helpful that a young Doctor made for his mum of breathing exercises to increase lung function - part of that is lying on your front for ten minutes. Lying on your back for long periods restricts some areas of your lungs.

 

[foxy]

My wife has now been told that they are washing the single-use PPE they have to use as there is no new stock. If there isn't a national enquiry into this farce I will be stunned. How this can be allowed to happen can only be due to astonishing incompetence or deliberate neglect of their duty.

I wouldn't put it down to incompetence or deliberate neglect, unless there is a world wide shortage of PPE. I would put it down to countries and WHO being complacent and thinking something like this will never happen, or if it did it would be contained.

Tell you what guys this virus and the way it is being handled will change me forever, I am 67 next saturday from now on its all about me my family and very very close friends the establishment can feck there selfs they don't give a f--k about the people putting there selfs at risk for us, its all about getting back on track getting the wheels moving making money, i will never look at this world the same

I don't know why some people think it is about money, everyone has seen how 3 rd world countries live, that's why the economies have to start moving, and soon. Everyone can't be locked down indefinitely, we can't be waiting for a vaccine which may never come. At the moment it looks like herd immunity is the only answer, flatten the curve and make a gradual return to normality. Keeping the pressure off the health systems of the world.

 

[MyQul]

I wouldn't put it down to incompetence or deliberate neglect, unless there is a world wide shortage of PPE. I would put it down to countries and WHO being complacent and thinking something like this will never happen, or if it did it would be contained.

I don't know why some people think it is about money, everyone has seen how 3 rd world countries live, that's why the economies have to start moving, and soon. Everyone can't be locked down indefinitely, we can't be waiting for a vaccine which may never come. At the moment it looks like herd immunity is the only answer, flatten the curve and make a gradual return to normality. Keeping the pressure off the health systems of the world.

Of course we cant stay in lockdown forever but the thing is there are things our goverment could be doing which they aren't. Such as allowing/contracting small clothing manufacturing companies to make PPE (at the moment only big companies like Assos and Burberry seem to be doing it), telling us all to wear face coverings when we go out (the message to wash our hands seems to have fallen by the way side even though it's still important) and close the airports (they're still open an letting 15,000 people into the UK every day). Any goverment would make mistakes during this time but ours seem to be making multiple own goals

 

[Stephenj]

Of course we cant stay in lockdown forever but the thing is there are things our goverment could be doing which they aren't. Such as allowing/contracting small clothing manufacturing companies to make PPE (at the moment only big companies like Assos and Burberry seem to be doing it), telling us all to wear face coverings when we go out (the message to wash our hands seems to have fallen by the way side even though it's still important) and close the airports (they're still open an letting 15,000 people into the UK every day). Any goverment would make mistakes during this time but ours seem to be making multiple own goals

You forgot to mention the ECONOMY.

 

[foxy]

Of course we cant stay in lockdown forever but the thing is there are things our goverment could be doing which they aren't. Such as allowing/contracting small clothing manufacturing companies to make PPE (at the moment only big companies like Assos and Burberry seem to be doing it), telling us all to wear face coverings when we go out (the message to wash our hands seems to have fallen by the way side even though it's still important) and close the airports (they're still open an letting 15,000 people into the UK every day). Any goverment would make mistakes during this time but ours seem to be making multiple own goals

Are not the people coming in going to help with the harvests, which no Brits seem to want to do? Farmers will go broke if the food just rots. Plus there is a major upcoming food shortage.
How many small clothing manufacturers are there? Don't most of the everyday clothes come from Pakistan, Bangladesh, China etc. There are only fashion houses left, I am sure that many companies are pitching in where they can, they are not going to turn business away.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...facturers-in-wartime-effort-to-fight-covid-19

 

[MyQul]

Are not the people coming in going to help with the harvests, which no Brits seem to want to do? Farmers will go broke if the food just rots. Plus there is a major upcoming food shortage.
How many small clothing manufacturers are there? Don't most of the everyday clothes come from Pakistan, Bangladesh, China etc. There are only fashion houses left, I am sure that many companies are pitching in where they can, they are not going to turn business away.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...facturers-in-wartime-effort-to-fight-covid-19

Yes we need people to help with the harvests but we've got people coming in from all over the world not just E. European migrant fruit and veg pickers. They're also not tested or quarintined. You can get off a plane and straight onto the picadilly line

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...eople-a-day-to-uk-without-screening-bn255vtjs
MOST clothing we get is cheap stuff from places like you mention but we still have a small clothing manufacturing base and the small textile firms seem to be being ignored

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion...nores-uk-textiles-firms-desperate-to-make-ppe

 

[MyQul]

You forgot to mention the ECONOMY.

 

[foxy]

Yes we need people to help with the harvests but we've got people coming in from all over the world not just E. European migrant fruit and veg pickers. They're also not tested or quarintined. You can get off a plane and straight onto the picadilly line

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...eople-a-day-to-uk-without-screening-bn255vtjs
MOST clothing we get is cheap stuff from places like you mention but we still have a small clothing manufacturing base and the small textile firms seem to be being ignored

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion...nores-uk-textiles-firms-desperate-to-make-ppe

So you would sooner the farmers go broke, let the food rot what other choice is there? Increase your reliance on other countries to provide your food, 80% now want to take it higher. Biggest problem why there is a world shortage of PPE is because the most of it is produced in China.
Because no one wants to pitch in and help the farmers the farmers don't have any other choice, I would do the same thing.
So the owners of the small clothing manufacturers would sooner go broke than manufacture whatever they can, and get paid, are they stupid or something? Maybe Boris has been to generous with his hand outs.

 

[MyQul]

So you would sooner the farmers go broke, let the food rot what other choice is there? Increase your reliance on other countries to provide your food, 80% now want to take it higher. Biggest problem why there is a world shortage of PPE is because the most of it is produced in China.
Because no one wants to pitch in and help the farmers the farmers don't have any other choice, I would do the same thing.
So the owners of the small clothing manufacturers would sooner go broke than manufacture whatever they can, and get paid, are they stupid or something? Maybe Boris has been to generous with his hand outs.

Where did I say I would like anyone to go broke. My point is the Government could do more smaller things to help stop/limit transmission of the virus.

They could close the airports to regular people travellingto the UK (your own country, Australia has closed the borders to all but it's own citizens) but commission flights for the farm workers and land the planes at military airports. The goverment could subidise wages so farmers could pay a higher wage to attract the now 1.5 million new universal credit claimants.

How do the small clothing manufactured pay for the cloth/ pay wages if they do it for free. Our Goverment need to be buying from and commissioning from them too. They dont seem to be doing that.

They've more or less temporarily nationalised the railways to stop them going broke because rail travel is down for example. So theres more so there stuff they could do

 

[foxy]

Where did I say I would like anyone to go broke. My point is the Government could do more smaller things to help stop/limit transmission of the virus.

They could close the airports to regular people travellingto the UK (your own country, Australia has closed the borders to all but it's own citizens) but commission flights for the farm workers and land the planes at military airports. The goverment could subidise wages so farmers could pay a higher wage to attract the now 1.5 million new universal credit claimants.

How do the small clothing manufactured pay for the cloth/ pay wages if they do it for free. Our Goverment need to be buying from and commissioning from them too. They dont seem to be doing that.

They've more or less temporarily nationalised the railways to stop them going broke because rail travel is down for example. So theres more so there stuff they could do

You don't have to say you would like anyone to go broke, that is what will happen if the fruit and whatever else is left to rot. What else can the government do, they have asked people to stay home and keep a safe distance and implemented the police to hand out fines.
Its alright saying they could've done this and that after its been done, the farmers tried to recruit labour from within the UK but got no takers.
The government are paying for masks etc, same as they are paying for ventilators which are being manufactured. Its exactly the same as here we have one manufacturer of masks they have put army engineers in to help increase supply they are working around the clock.

 

[MyQul]

You don't have to say you would like anyone to go broke, that is what will happen if the fruit and whatever else is left to rot. What else can the government do, they have asked people to stay home and keep a safe distance and implemented the police to hand out fines.
Its alright saying they could've done this and that after its been done, the farmers tried to recruit labour from within the UK but got no takers.
The government are paying for masks etc, same as they are paying for ventilators which are being manufactured. Its exactly the same as here we have one manufacturer of masks they have put army engineers in to help increase supply they are working around the clock.

Theres the argument that is one farmer worth more than all the people that the fruit an veg pickers coming over may infect (and up to 1% may die which is more than). Yes the food may not be picked and rot in the field but as you say yourself we import 80% of our food. We now eat more calories than we did 30 years ago, so could we possibly take that 20% hit?

Study Details 30-Year Increase in Calorie Consumption

(Yes this is an American study and it's from 2004 but I dont doubt us fat Brits are along the same trajectory and we pobabably eat even more now since 2004)

But as I've said it's Im aware hindsight is 20/20 but they're are things we could do NOW which we arn't doing (Such, as mentioned, close the airports and import fruit pickers via military bases, send out a 'wear face coverings' message etc)

 

[foxy]

It will be a lot more than a 20% hit, as I have said before food will be in short supply other countries will be holding on to their reserves, not exporting to the UK. Best thing the UK government could do now is strike a trade deal with Australia who produces about 35% more food than it needs.
Most countries are relaxing the lock down rules, I doubt whether the government cares about the itinerant workers coming in, it is a small amount and only a small amount of infection will come of it, if any. We will be moving towards the community immunity stage anyhow, every country not just UK.

 

[DavieC]

Unbelievable....

Yes, I thought the same ,and the Police stand happily amongst all the joyous crowd supposedly supporting the NHS.The crowd who haven't stayed home,not protecting the nhs and not saving lives.Just makes me mad.

 

[Leon103]

A nice morning debate.

I agree on the airports but what we don't know is if the government have been doing anything with British companies. All we can go if is the media, and that can't be believed. What j have seen is a lot of companies that don't need to close are closing and furlonging staff because it is better for the company.

 

[MyQul]

It will be a lot more than a 20% hit, as I have said before food will be in short supply other countries will be holding on to their reserves, not exporting to the UK. Best thing the UK government could do now is strike a trade deal with Australia who produces about 35% more food than it needs.
Most countries are relaxing the lock down rules, I doubt whether the government cares about the itinerant workers coming in, it is a small amount and only a small amount of infection will come of it, if any. We will be moving towards the community immunity stage anyhow, every country not just UK.

We'd then of course have to implement rationing. Ireland (not exactly a million miles away from us) also has a food surplus (not sure how much though) but that would mean doing a deal with the EU rather than Ireland.

I dont doubt the UK government dont care about itinerant workers as they dont seem to care about the 15,000 coming in through our airports. We've never actually had a lockdown. It's more a 'restricted movement' as you can go out to work (there's rather a large number of categories on the 'keyworker' list), you can go out every day for exercise (but no 'real' restrictions) and you can go out shopping. It's not like in France or spain whereby you need a 'chit' with a valid reason to be out and about. I could spend all day out, as long as Im cycling and not sitting in a park. So perhaps the Government were always persuing some sort of herd/community immunity?

 

[An Ankoù]

MOST clothing we get is cheap stuff from places like you mention but we still have a small clothing manufacturing base and the small textile firms seem to be being ignored

And these small manufacturers while TINY in the context of global clothing industry would probably be more than sufficient to satisfy this very specialised need. Let's not fail to see the wood for the trees.

 

[MyQul]

A nice morning debate.

I agree on the airports but what we don't know is if the government have been doing anything with British companies. All we can go if is the media, and that can't be believed. What j have seen is a lot of companies that don't need to close are closing and furlonging staff because it is better for the company.

Indeed - a good debate.

I've also read that many companies are furloughing companies to save the company profits. But what about the employees. But surely it's better that they stay at home and be furloghed (obviously there are many companies whereby you can work at home and not need to be furloughed - are these exclusively the ones you mean?)

 

[foxy]

We'd then of course have to implement rationing. Ireland (not exactly a million miles away from us) also has a food surplus (not sure how much though) but that would mean doing a deal with the EU rather than Ireland.

I dont doubt the UK government dont care about itinerant workers as they dont seem to care about the 15,000 coming in through our airports. We've never actually had a lockdown. It's more a 'restricted movement' as you can go out to work (there's rather a large number of categories on the 'keyworker' list), you can go out every day for exercise (but no 'real' restrictions) and you can go out shopping. It's not like in France or spain whereby you need a 'chit' with a valid reason to be out and about. I could spend all day out, as long as Im cycling and not sitting in a park. So perhaps the Government were always persuing some sort of herd/community immunity?

The herd immunity is the only option left open as I said in post 2,628. You yourself mentioned mumps being the quickest go to whoa vaccine produced, the corona virus SARS still has no vaccine. Unfortunately there will be more deaths but there is no other way out of the situation the world finds itself in. We just have to keep it at a minimum.