'That' homebrew taste... what is it?

[paologray]

Hi Guys,

I've made a couple of 'Coopers' lager brews, which would be nice apart from a strong 'homebrew' flavour. What is this flavour? It's like a yeasty, sour, not very nice flavour? Do you know what I mean?

Sorry for being so vague!!

Cheers

Paul

 

[Tarticus]

I think now with modern spray malts and brewing sugar's etc the home brew taste is a lot less.

And with the addition of hop sachets and new things makes for a great pint, I used to home brew years ago and like you say there was always that certain "twang" but after trying some home brew that other people have made its as good as you would buy in some pubs if not better.

I currently have a St Peters Golden Ale brewing and tasted some in my LHBS and was amazed how well it tasted.

Im a firm believer in what you pay for and paying for some of the 2 can kits and also making your own partial mash extract brews will mean there is no home brew taste to talk about but thats my opinion.

Also make sure you condition your beer, drinking it too quick will mean there is a chance of a yeasty taste

 

[Drunken Horse]

how long have you been leaving your beers once brewed? It is the yeast you are tasting if drunk any less than 4-5 weeks after brewing (even longer maybe). My first brew a wherry took 2 months for the yeast flavour to subside enough for me to fully enjoy it

 

[LeithR]

You may also find that many on here do not use the yeast that comes with the kit but substitute it for a good known strain, maybe a Safale-04 or a Nottingham yeast, that will have a very large effect on the final product. You can also add some beer enhancer and/or hops to modify the basic kit. this has a large effect as to strength and flavour as well.

 

[morethanworts]

Whatever it is, not all 2-can kits are immune. I'm certainly no expert, but I must have done over 30 kits (with a gap over the last decade, until February) and very few have tasted as good as commercial beer, even when conditioned for many weeks. However, the recent ones have been far better, which have comprised of some Brewferm kits, Woodforde's Wherrys, Coopers Original Stout and the Brewmaker Old English Ale. The latter is slightly young, but has far more of a twang to it than any of the others, despite a dry hop with some Challenger hops. I'd happily take my two identical tasting batches of dry-hopped Wherry over many, many, pub pints. I did add extra yeast in all cases but the Brewferm kits, as the tiny 6g sachets usually provided don't help.

It's only recently that I've begun to trust my methods enough to pass any judgement on the kit itself at all, with the help of this forum and a couple of other sources. Keep as many things consistent as you can.

I think the idea that table sugar in any quantity (at least cane sugar) adds a home brew taste is probably a myth. I've tasted a Belgian Tripel from one of the forum's all grain brewers that had over a kilo of cane sugar in 18L... and it was fantastic. It will certainly thin the body out, but I don't think cane sugar contributes to any off tastes as such. I think it's more likely that people tend to be using poorer practices generally at the early stages of brewing, a time when they are more likely to be buying cheap, one can kits to which bulk sugar is added. It's probably not the sugar's fault!

 

[calumscott]

No one knows for sure but the likely candidates for THBT are:

1) Sugar choice. Common belief has it that sucrose can cause "off" flavours in beer, particularly when used "raw" and as a high percentage of the total fermentible sugar. Use dextrose instead or better still dried or liquid malt extract.
2) Shelf life of malt extract. Again, popular belief has it that fresh extract is best and old extract can give off flavours
3) Kit Quality. You pays your money, you takes your choice. Cheaper kits tend to use lesser quality ingredients. Read the blurb on a Muntons Gold kit to see what I mean. Their malt extract has been through hot and cold breaks before being condensed for example. Cheaper kits perhaps don't.
4) Hops. Most kits will simply have isomerised hop extract added to the malt extract to give bitterness and flavour.
5) Yeast. The packets of dried yeast with the kits don't have a lot of cells, are generally of dubious quality (although some are excellent) and are of indeterminate age. The results of these problems tends to be significant "under-pitching" of viable yeast which is known (and in some styles encouraged) to cause off-flavours.
6) Brewing conditions. Follow the instructions and you'll get quick, bad beer. Follow a properly thought through and practised process you will see significant improvements. The manufacturers want it to seem like you are going to be drinking your beer in three weeks. While perfectly safe, the resulting beer would be awful. Keep brewing temperatures to 18C, extend primary fermentation to at least 14 days and condition for at least 4-6 weeks depending on style. Instructions tend to have you brewing too hot and too quick.

HTH.

C

 

[operon]

I've made 6 kits and another in the FV at the moment and the only one so far I have thought it had a twang was the first one I made. It was a Coopers Canadian Blonde brewed with 1kg of brewing sugar. Used my tap water which at times can smell like bleach and it definitely affected the beer. With a twang and a dryness of the lips after drinking it. Since then moved on to using bottled water and 2 can kits and have to say they taste as good or if not better than a lot of shop bought stuff. Reading here a lot of it is patience. I give my brews at least 2 weeks and with some of the kits having a reputation for sticking I give them 3 weeks to make sure they are finished. Give them plenty of conditioning time, it does get better with age. That last bottle is always great then you think crap it's all gone. I'm hoping by Christmas my supply will be built up enough that I will be self sufficient.

 

[pjc]

...It's like a yeasty, sour, not very nice flavour...

I know exactly the flavour you are talking about and I have had it many times with both kits and all grain brews. I haven't had the taste in my beers lately and I'm pretty sure it's due to one or both of the following...

Firstly, fermentation temperature. Recently I have been controlling the temperature of the fermenting beer to around 18-21C. At 22C and above the yeast can produce some flavours which can ruin the beer. I have a feeling this effect is worse with some of the dried yeasts. I've had this problem happen after bottling too so it can occur at any stage in the process. (The temperatures above are not for lager yeast but I believe the Coopers Lager kits actually come with ale yeast(?).)

Secondly, water treatment. I live in an area of very hard, alkaline water and I now treat my water with CRS according to the style I am making. This is important for all grain brewing to control the alkalinity of the mash. Before I treated my water my darker brews always used to be much better than my pales beers and this is due to the hard water. Now I can make decent pale ale! This is probably less relevant for kits, however.

I hope this helps!

 

[Pearlfisher]

When I used to brew kits 35 years ago you could tell it was beer but not like any commercial beer you'd drank before !

 

[paologray]

Thanks very much for the replies chaps. Given me some very much needed encouragement to GET ON WITH IT!

I've just remembered I've got a 25L Burco boiler in the garage, can I use this make my own REAL beer?

 

[LeithR]

You sure can. 25L would work for a 19L final brew length accounting for evaporation and grain absorbtion. I always have a 8L smaller boiler going in the background so I can add liquor either during the boiling phase or at flame out.

 

[Slate Miner]

I had go brewing a 'Boots' kit back in the early 80s which was pretty average to say the least and almost put me off for life, but not quite as I was given a Wherry starter kit Xmas 2011 and I've been pleasantly surprised at the standard and quality of the ale you can make yourself from various kits ever since.

However you do need patience, clean equipment, good quality ingredients, and correct brewing temperature.

I recently brewed the Festival's Landlord's Finest kit back in July and it's not that wonderful to be honest, I can only blame myself as the general feedback on this particular kit is good, brewing in a heat-wave is not a sensible idea and I'm sure the temperature got a bit too high especially at the beginning of the brew. It's drinkable, certainly has a 'twang' to it and may improve, we'll see , but a lesson learned. Stick to the common sense basics and you shouldn't go too far wrong.

 

[pittsy]

Hey don't knock that home brew ''twang'' it's got me to switch to extract brewing and once i tasted the difference i was itching to go ag and haven't look back since

 

[oldjiver]

When I re commenced brewing after a gap of many years I gave extract a try to see if it had improved,.. it hadn't much. I have read of people winning competitions with extract brews? but what was the competition? Lots of white sugar always gives a sour twang, so the best extract brew I made was all cooper pure extract. But at £11 quid a tin its a dear brew. It still tasted like homebrew but nice homebrew!
Now I only do all grain and I wouldnt try anything else as its better than most pub beers I have had.

 

[calumscott]

By extract pittsy meant using raw ,unhopped, malt extract and performing the boil and hop schedule as one might with an AG brew...

 

[morethanworts]

Lots of white sugar always gives a sour twang

No it doesn't- sorry. Not the sugar itself, at least certainly not 'always'. It's a red herring. Of the few thinks I can be sure of in this lark, that is one.

Repeating myself, I know:

I've tasted a Belgian Tripel from one of the forum's all grain brewers that had over a kilo of cane sugar in 18L... and it was fantastic.

I know a good tripel when I taste it, really.

I'm sure the white sugar twang myth is a result of what a good friend of mine would call 'confounding factors'.

Thin, tasteless in the wrong amounts/recipe, overly alcoholic tasting... maybe. But not 'sour' and certainly not always.

 

[paologray]

Blimey, you chaps know your stuff. I've got space, a boiler, the bits and now the resource (I'm new here... what a fantabulous site by the way :clap: ...) so I think I'm going for AG.

My friend has been brewing some extract beers, and they're OK. I don't think I could drink more than 1 or 2 though. So, we're going to compare his 'canned syrup' beer to my AG. Will be interesting to have them side by side.

One other thing - how would you suggest transporting my AG beer down to my friends in South Wales (2 hour drive)? Do I need to just stand the bottles up, get them in the fridge over night when I get there?

 

[calumscott]

Transporting bottle conditioned beer is easy. Just get a crate.

So long as it has been stood a good while beforehand and so long as the bottles remain upright you can ship them around just fine.

 

[graysalchemy]

All my beer gets transported home every weekend. Keep it upright for the journey 3 hrs settling and then it gets drunk. :thumb:

However it does help that a) the beer is clear when bottled, b) the beer is left to mature so that the sediment compacts in the bottle.

:thumb: :thumb:

 

[PD]

If your wanting to transport beers a good distance to say a party...the easiest method is to drink it first, go to the party taking a couple of dozen empty Fos***r or similar bottles,cans whatever.
On arrival visit the toilet refill your empty bottles and tell them that your brew was not ready so you bought at great expence some bottles...... :party: :party:

Everyones a winner.