TETB’s Brewdays

[Buffers brewery]

@Buffers brewery just thinking about the speed with which your setup moves between the mash rests: I seem to recall you use a lot of glass balls to reduce the dead space? I wonder if that could be a cause: I think glass has got a pretty massive specific heat capacity...

I think it might be to do with my HERMS tank. I think you use a kettle and circulate the hot water through your counterflow “chiller”? So you’re heating a litre or two of water. My tank is a 10 litre waste bin heated by a kettle element. I think it needs less water in circulation.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Yes it's one of those tools I wonder how I ever did without: just does exactly what it says on the tin.
Slightly confused how the wortometer itself could fit into a thermowell tho?

Wortometer wouldn't fit into the thermowell. Sorry, I could have stated it better.
At present, the thermal probe for the GF goes into the thermowell (not the wortometer) in the body of the grainfather to measure the temp of the mash.
I was wondering about adding the wortometer (not currently used during the mash) to the end of the recirc pipe and then putting the temp probe in the wortometer rather than the thermowell.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Sparge all in; just finishing the runoff

 

[Agentgonzo]

I love a good graph!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

At present, the thermal probe for the GF goes into the thermowell (not the wortometer) in the body of the grainfather to measure the temp of the mash.
I was wondering about adding the wortometer (not currently used during the mash) to the end of the recirc pipe and then putting the temp probe in the wortometer rather than the thermowell.

Ah - yes, got you
I think either way is valid: obvs. it's the temperature of the grain that matters; but I like to keep an eye on the recirculated wort temperature too.
In my setup there's a minute or two's time lag until changes in the recirculation temp work their way through to that of the grain. So if I drove the PID purely off the grain temp, the recirculation temp would overshoot heroically and 'cook' the wort.
I'm pretty sure the GF design will account for that though!

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

A few more pics during the sparge

Pumping the heated sparge water into the HLT (it gets the final few degrees from the heat exchanger during the actual sparge)

Sparge underway. The name of the game is to balance the flow through the two (circled) taps whilst keeping an eye on the sight glass.

Saves me so much time with this new setup being able to start heating for the boil while still collecting wort

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

First runnings were 1.070 (!)
Once all the sparge was in the runnings went from 1.040 to 1.015

Overall pre-boil 1.030

Happy with the volumes.
... I know a few people who'd say there's room for a few more litres in there LoL

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Hot break skimmed, 30g of Tettnang in, and we're off.
... aroma is great

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Meanwhile...

 

[Agentgonzo]

Ah - yes, got you
I think either way is valid: obvs. it's the temperature of the grain that matters; but I like to keep an eye on the recirculated wort temperature too.
In my setup there's a minute or two's time lag until changes in the recirculation temp work their way through to that of the grain. So if I drove the PID purely off the grain temp, the recirculation temp would overshoot heroically and 'cook' the wort.
I'm pretty sure the GF design will account for that though!

Yeah. Given that the controller has a PID in it, and the thermowell is below the mash bed, I'm not sure what I'd be achieving with moving the temperature probe from the thermowell in the dead-space below the grain basket into the output of the recirc pipe. In fact, I'm sure it wouldn't make any difference as the inlet for the recirc pipe is pretty much next to the thermowell anyway, so they should both be the same temperature.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Well here we are: 22L of loveliness at 1.047

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I think it might be to do with my HERMS tank. I think you use a kettle and circulate the hot water through your counterflow “chiller”? So you’re heating a litre or two of water. My tank is a 10 litre waste bin heated by a kettle element. I think it needs less water in circulation.

Yes that's right: I'm only heating about 1.5L of water in my 'outer' circuit.
As you say that means the element can heat it pretty fast.
Another thing to consider might be the rate at which wort is pumped round the 'internal' circuit, as I think that determines the rate at which heat is transferred to the grain. In my case this is 4.5 litres per minute
Finally there's the length and efficiency of the heat exchanger. Mine is 10m of copper tubing, and having it as a counterflow probably makes it very thermodynamically efficient compared to a coil in a tank...

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Pitched at 13ºc with WY2308 Munich Lager.
I'm going to try the 'fast lager' fermentation schedule (e.g. see Fast Lagers: Ferment Your Favorite Lagers in Less Time - Brew Your Own), so I'll hold it at 12-13ºc until it's about halfway between OG and FG - and then slowly ramp up to a diacetyl rest before cold crashing.
Keeping fingers crossed it will work!

 

[Buffers brewery]

Yes that's right: I'm only heating about 1.5L of water in my 'outer' circuit.
As you say that means the element can heat it pretty fast.
Another thing to consider might be the rate at which wort is pumped round the 'internal' circuit, as I think that determines the rate at which heat is transferred to the grain. In my case this is 4.5 litres per minute
Finally there's the length and efficiency of the heat exchanger. Mine is 10m of copper tubing, and having it as a counterflow probably makes it very thermodynamically efficient compared to a coil in a tank...

Might have to pinch your set up as a basis for my revised HERMS

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Wortometer wouldn't fit into the thermowell. Sorry, I could have stated it better.
At present, the thermal probe for the GF goes into the thermowell (not the wortometer) in the body of the grainfather to measure the temp of the mash.
I was wondering about adding the wortometer (not currently used during the mash) to the end of the recirc pipe and then putting the temp probe in the wortometer rather than the thermowell.

I have set up my Guten with a Smartpid and it has the base temp sensor, there is a second sensor option that I've fitted and I use this in the wortometer on the recirculation just before the wort enters the top of the malt pipe.
I have noticed a temperature difference with this and have tweaked my settings to optimise the temperature of the liquid going onto the grains. You don't have to have a second sensor you could keep your probe in the thermowell and then just plug a stand alone electronic thermometer into the wortometer.
I have also modified by fitting a switch to the base of kettle sensor so that I can have another temp probe to select. I use that one during the boil in a thermowell and that is in the top of the liquid boiling to assess the temperature of the boil.
I then have the other sensor used in the wortometer on the outflow of the counter flow chiller before the whirlpool.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I have set up my Guten with a Smartpid and it has the base temp sensor, there is a second sensor option that I've fitted and I use this in the wortometer on the recirculation just before the wort enters the top of the malt pipe.
I have noticed a temperature difference with this and have tweaked my settings to optimise the temperature of the liquid going onto the grains. You don't have to have a second sensor you could keep your probe in the thermowell and then just plug a stand alone electronic thermometer into the wortometer.
I have also modified by fitting a switch to the base of kettle sensor so that I can have another temp probe to select. I use that one during the boil in a thermowell and that is in the top of the liquid boiling to assess the temperature of the boil.
I then have the other sensor used in the wortometer on the outflow of the counter flow chiller before the whirlpool.

Nice! I think you’re right: measuring the temp at different locations can definitely gIve you more insight into what goes on, even if it’s a point-measurement rather than a continuous plot.
What sensors do you use? Personally I like the little encapsulated digital sensors (ds18b20): cheap as chips and you can ‘daisy chain’ as many of them as you like into a single controller.

I recall @Hazelwood Brewery saying something like the basis of managing anything is good reliable data ;-)

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Might have to pinch your set up as a basis for my revised HERMS

Great! Obvs just give me a shout if you want any additional details/photos :-)

 

[Buffers brewery]

Great! Obvs just give me a shout if you want any additional details/photos :-)

Ta . First question, as you use it with hot water what hose did you use, pvc or silicone?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Ta . First question, as you use it with hot water what hose did you use, pvc or silicone?

will reply by PM :-)

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Just plugged the numbers from yesterday's brew into the @BF efficiency calc - 22.3L at 1.048 (hydrometer @20ºc).

96% BHE... surely that can't be right?