TCP Taste again ....

[chrisbuck10765]

Hi

My last brew had that 'TCP' medicinal taste - undrinkable ... I've had this once before and as I understand it probably due to inadequate rinsing of my chlorine based steriliser or too many chloramines etc in water (despite boiling and half a Camden tablet)

Plan B for next brew (IPA) use non rinse sanitiser (starsan) and use tescos ashbeck water for both the brew and sanitiser mix - just after any advice really as a little disappointed .

.. Also should I boil the bottled water the night before (as I do with tap water) or is this step not necessary ??

Many,many thanks for any info/advice.

 

[cab01942]

Well the Trichlorophenol cannot be present without both chlorine and phenols (in whatever form). Depending on your skill level you could buy a water filter from Screwfix. It doesn't have to be permanently plumbed in. You can attach it to a garden hose fitting: okay it will be a little leaky but the emerging water being collected will be 'pure' so to speak. Look at some of the vids on Youtube where folks are making beer filters out of them: some good crude, none permanent plumbing ideas that would work for water too.

I had a problem like this whereby odd batches were affected. Nailed it down to giving things a final rinse with tap water - tadah! Enough chlorine there to do the damage in those few drops. Never happened since :)

 

[graysalchemy]

And phenols are present by the bucket load in beer due to the hops. I would say that it was down to not rising your chlorine based sanitisers enough.

I campden tablet in 50L of water will remove chloramines and chlorine instantaneously and the boil will get chlorines out very quick to.

No need to boil it up first or add the campden too far in advanced.

 

[Hopping_Mad]

Half a campden tablet in a large bowl of water and, after a couple of rinses with rap water, a couple of swishes round with a bit of the water from the bowl gets rid of the chlorine smell for me!

 

[Hoppy]

Graysalchemy is spot on.

You really don't have to have much free chlorine available either.

What you are tasting is 2,6-di-chlorophenol, which can be detected at a concentration threshold of 300 nano grams/litre!

Ironically Tri-chlorophenol is detected at six times this! Although tri-chlorophenol is not produced, if I remember this can only be produced at over 120 degrees C.

WBR

H

 

[chrisbuck10765]

Thanks guys for the info - I think I'll switch to a no-rinse steriliser and bottled water. I think the final rinse with tap water must have been it then ...

 

[NickW]

I ofted do a rinse under my tap with bits and bobs and also I clean my FV with oxy, then rinse out with tap water.. drain the excess, star san and re-starsan on brewday..

I've never had issues with excess tap water causing TCP tastes - surely it can't be that?

 

[graysalchemy]

Thats why you treat your water with a campden tablet Nick.

 

[NickW]

Thats why you treat your water with a campden tablet Nick.

I don't though. .! I ri see straight from the tap. I brew with asda smart price water though

 

[NickW]

Rinse* sorry can't see the edit button

 

[Gordon]

I had a recent brew, it is still in the FV after 3 weeks had been sitting at 20 deg c , I was hoping the 'take your breath away clinical' smell would go away, it hasn't though so I suspect I will have to ditch it now. It was my first BIAB, all went really well on brew day, spot on with og, temps and volumes. Pitched what I thought was superior liquid yeast wyeast 'London ale'. After 36hours of zero activity, read the yeast packet, "to be stored at 1-4deg", mine was on the shelf in a warm shop, also best used within 6 months of packing date, mine was 7 months old, anyhow I re pitched safale 04, which I have always found to be reliable, and it started fermenting within 6 hours, not a huge krausen though, I opened it to take a look and it brought tears to my eyes! I left it for a couple of weeks, smell has lessened, but still noticeable. Anyway, the point I was going to make is, I used a campden tablet crushed and added to my water, I also use starsan. So any ideas what went wrong? Is this just an infection? There is no signs of hairy stuff. Cheers

 

[cab01942]

I ofted do a rinse under my tap with bits and bobs and also I clean my FV with oxy, then rinse out with tap water.. drain the excess, star san and re-starsan on brewday..

I've never had issues with excess tap water causing TCP tastes - surely it can't be that?

A quick history of water treatment in the NW of England:
supply from the Lake District
water chlorination gaseous injection
considered soft

Around 1980-90 my dad was having real problems using his tap water. The smell of chlorine was overwhelming. If used in tea or coffee etcetera it was undrinkable because of the overwhelming taste of TCP; and odour. of the same Neighbours were asked if they had problems. Around a dozen homes nearby were similarly affected but after a few months of complaints they ceased complaining and started to buy bottled water. My father persisted with help from me.

The NW water Authority (as it was then) asked for detailed information: time of occurrence, how long did it persist before rectifying, which days etcetera. After two years they supplied dad with sample bottles with labels to write the same information upon. The problem was quite variable which made it difficult to nail down. he had to fill the sample to very top to avoid any venting of chlorine gas. Several samples were 'slightly over' permitted levels for drinking water but not sufficient to account for what dad was complaining about. Then D-Day, a couple of samples collected were like drinking dilute bleach - not an exaggeration. The PhD dealing with the matter conveniently lost these two samples but the problem never manifested again. What do you think? Clearly the potential to get build ups exists when chlorine has been added and demand is low. This is what he said was occurring at times of low (water) demand; and as dad's home was amongst the first on the supply for that estate this is what he believed to be causing the problem. But the lost samples? Forgive me but I believe they were tested and so far off the radar they didn't intend admitting to it.

In our locality it is common for people to adopt TCP flavours in things containing tap water. I recall my sister making some barm cakes (oven bottoms, flour cakes, baps) for a party - they were great: salmon, cucumber, and yes you guessed it, TCP antiseptic flavour.

Incidentally, and unrelated, the estate I live on suffered an awful stench of raw sewage every couple of weeks: especially from late spring to early autumn. The water authority asked me to dairy events. The problem occurred for the first time in about 5 years last week. Apparently the cause was visiting engineers taking a short cut when visiting the nearby treatment plant to do maintenance and they knew exactly what they were doing. They asked me to call if it ever occurred again. Someone on sick leave or holiday, or maybe a new employee - I have let them know.

 

[graysalchemy]

If you were living in the south of the NWW region Ie merseyside or cheshire then some of that water came of the River Dee, which has Monsanta Chemical works on its banks. They remove 99.999% of all phenols out of their water before it goes into the river (or they did in the late 80's when I was abiology student on a field trip) However there were occasions when phenols slipped in and when it passed through the clorination plant the resulting supply tasted of TCP.

So it could have been that.

 

[dhendy91]

I to am also have this plastic taste with my first BIAB brew :sad: it has been in the FV a week at 20 degrees. It was the my first time using my new 40L buffalo from nesbits clearance and when it turned up it has a masive chlorine smell where they had obliviously cleaned it. I got rid of this smell by washing it sevral times before I used it and boiled and a crushed campden tablet.

Will this taste disappear because at the moment it is ruining my first AG?

 

[chrisbuck10765]

I to am also have this plastic taste with my first BIAB brew :sad: it has been in the FV a week at 20 degrees. It was the my first time using my new 40L buffalo from nesbits clearance and when it turned up it has a masive chlorine smell where they had obliviously cleaned it. I got rid of this smell by washing it sevral times before I used it and boiled and a crushed campden tablet.

Will this taste disappear because at the moment it is ruining my first AG?

Unfortunately the taste does not disappear -I kept a few bottles for months and still there :cry:

Ditch it and start again - I've had this happen to twice in about 12 batches - hence I'm next using that starsan non-rinse, non-chlorinated rinse and bottled tesco's ashbeck water next try...