Strategy

[sanch3z]

So, I was worried this would happen... As soon as I get my first brew on and start coming here I feel the addiction kicking in. You know, the need to brew more, try new things, buy more gear... But I need a clever strategy to stop me going crazy and it needs to be realistic.

A bit about me:
- Only ever done kits (x6)
- Have a young family
- Only drink 2-4 beers a week
- Don't host huge parties/BBQs

I know, you're thinking 'Christ he sounds boring' and that's a fair assessment but work (run my own business) and family commitments keep me busy, I also tend to not crack open a beer until the kids are in bed because it makes me want to sleep so drinking time is limited.

Moving swiftly on... I'm thinking how do I take things to the next level? I'm happy to invest in a little more gear (love to tinker) but I don't really want a 'stop-gap' that will be useless this time next year. I'm also not sure about brewing big batches as these will occupy my bottles and stop me doing subsequent brews.

So:
- What is a natural progression?
- Is it weird to want to brew small batches?
- I guess economy of scale means the smaller batches are really expensive?
- If I stick with large batches how long would a brew last for in a PET bottle in a cold garage?

Thanks in advance

 

[BarnBrian]

Natural progression as follows.
Get yourself a Braumeister or Grainfather.
Have more kids.
Start drinking at least 4 beers a night.
Have parties at least once a week.
Problem solved.:thumb:

 

[Spapro]

You sound like its worth you considering All grain Brew In A Bag (BIAB) - you could do 10l - 23l with most of the BIAB solutions available - be it a PECO boiler starter kit, a stainless stockpot or something like an ACE boiler.

BIAB takes a bit of time 4-5 hours per brew but with quiet periods during that brewing time but the beer produced is streets ahead of kits.

You can buy ingredient boxes from somewhere like geterbrewed where you add in exact amounts for your smaller batch I think. Or just buy 5-10 kgs of marris otter, a couple of different hops 100g packs and some 500g bags of crystal malt, munich malt, chocolate malt to get you started. Graham Wheelers book of recipes is a good foundation for all grain, and plenty of enthusiastic advice on here obviously.

 

[chewie]

Brewing all grain would be considered the end of the natural progression line, the meta would be the experimentation of ingredients within that, years and years of possible combo's.

Not weird at all, plenty of members have to brew within there own domestic situations limits

Small batches can be expensive if you buy the ingredients in small batches as well, however if you where to buy a 25kg sack of base malt and store it well and only use smaller amounts of adjuncts or flavour/body grain and buy hops that are on offer then you can keep costs well down.

A typical large batch in home brew terms is probably considered to be 5 gallons, assuming around 40 500ml bottles from that then it would last you 10-20 weeks at your current evaporation rate, it will easily keep for a year though taste/flavour can vary wildly from beer to beer due to strength and conditiong time.

Clibits BIAB guide is a good start for progressing into all grain, it can be done on a stove top with nothing more than a bag and a large 10-15l stock pot which aren't expensive. If however you decide you want to do larger batches then going to either a 3 vessel system or all in one type kettle/mash tun would be a bit more beneficial, downside to all in one type is trying to lift a bag/grain basket of 5-7kg soaking wet hot grain is not easy even for the most able bodied so some thought might be required on the area you would be brewing in.

 

[chub1]

I must be weird then:whistle:.I do 5/6 litre BIAB batches and up to 10 litre extract brews. I like to try different beers and don't want to be drinking masses of the same one all the time.Is it more expensive? ,probably is pro rata but then i'm not looking to get a pint as cheap as chips at any cost.
Certainly extract is more expensive than using allgrain but you don't need massive pots to brew it and it's a bit quicker and you can produce some good beers.
PET bottles are fine,i use a fair amount of them.How long will beer last in them,guess same as in glass,depends on what it is and the strength.

 

[Sadfield]

Brewing all grain would be considered the end of the natural progression line, the meta would be the experimentation of ingredients within that, years and years of possible combo's.

Not weird at all, plenty of members have to brew within there own domestic situations limits

Small batches can be expensive if you buy the ingredients in small batches as well, however if you where to buy a 25kg sack of base malt and store it well and only use smaller amounts of adjuncts or flavour/body grain and buy hops that are on offer then you can keep costs well down.

A typical large batch in home brew terms is probably considered to be 5 gallons, assuming around 40 500ml bottles from that then it would last you 10-20 weeks at your current evaporation rate, it will easily keep for a year though taste/flavour can vary wildly from beer to beer due to strength and conditiong time.

Clibits BIAB guide is a good start for progressing into all grain, it can be done on a stove top with nothing more than a bag and a large 10-15l stock pot which aren't expensive. If however you decide you want to do larger batches then going to either a 3 vessel system or all in one type kettle/mash tun would be a bit more beneficial, downside to all in one type is trying to lift a bag/grain basket of 5-7kg soaking wet hot grain is not easy even for the most able bodied so some thought might be required on the area you would be brewing in.

All good advice.

I may suggest a 30L stock pot, BIAB bag, and wort chiller. This would allow doing small 10L batches of All Grain brewing by BIAB, or when time is tight, full volume extract boils. This setup would also allow brewing of bigger 20L volumes if required and the equipment would still be useful in a 3 vessel system if you progressed that way.

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[Deadhead]

This a good article that explains the ins and outs of small batch brewing (all-grain)

Another one here

The Brooklyn Brew Shop book has recipes already scaled to small batch

And many homebrew shops offer all-grain kits in small scale. The Edinburgh Home Brew shop appear to have some on their site which may be worth a look.

 

[Leon103]

I like the idea of small batches and done a couple and will do a few more in the future for stronger type beers.

The only thing that stops me doing them more regularly is that it takes more or less the same amount of time as a full brew

 

[sanch3z]

wow, guess people took pity on my situation It's really not as a bad as it sounds (honest). life is hectic at the moment and i'm not a huge drinker - would rather have 1 decent beer than 10 poor ones...

so that's tons to digest, I had actually watched Clibits BIAB video and started looking at Ace systems last night but felt I was getting carried away. I'm a little stuck for space at home which might determine which route I go:

- Sink + Induction hob in kitchen
- Not sure maximum weight hob will take. A 30L stock pot sounds heavy
- Garage is my domain. I can make a brew area down one end, could even stud out a section, add electrics but there is no sink, running water or hob

I guess an All in one means I don't need a hob, I can just move filtered water into the garage for the initial fill?

Is it wise to go on a an AG mashing course first to see what's involved or is watching a few YT vids enough to get a feel?

 

[Sadfield]

YT is a wealth of info.

A boiler would be great, anything from 25-40L capacity would do the job.

Small and often is the way I brew, roughly about 16-18 mainly 10L batches a year, with the odd 20L here and there.

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[chewie]

If you have an outside tap nearhand the garage it wouldn't be to difficult to run a hosepipe over or some hep for water as and when you need it, if just doing small batch then a few demi johns with filtered water in them would suffice np.

All in one would mean usually a more contained unit with smaller footprint but these can get be expensive at the top end and around 50 quid up at the bottom (peco). Should you do decide to brew in the garage be aware with a 1-2 hour boil there is a lot of steam that will saturate everything without proper ventilation.

I would be inclined to not bother with a course unless it had industry accreditation with it, there is plenty of good info vids about and lots of knowledge on here.

 

[Fil]

I would start with a couple of stove top brews 5-10l it will give you a feel for if a 5+hour brewday is a good way to spend time, And the experience of the process will give you a much clearer insight into which if any direction any equipment upgrade would best suit you. As is you may decide a fortnightly 10 l brew is sufficient to keep you and yours in supping beers.

5 gallons is a popular brewlength since its about the limit most folk can lump from floor to waist height for a gravity drain/transfer its not a rule

 

[Spapro]

A 60-90 minute boil in any kind of pot creates a lot of steam - I brew at the front of my garage with the door open so the steam just flies away externally - avoiding any condensation collecting on an internal ceiling and dripping back into the brew.

Good luck with your brewing, exciting times ahead !

 

[sanch3z]

oh wow never considered condensation, obviously in the kitchen I have a decent extractor, can do something else whilst it's boiling, in the garage I would have to leave the main door a jar. We are on quite a main road and people with a certain type of vehicle have been known to help themselves to the contents of people's garages so I wouldn't been keen on advertising the contents, let alone having to sit with it for two hours if not necessary. I do however have water run to the end of the garden and a consumer unit with room for another shed or two. Maybe planning now is the best way to make sure I don't make any mistakes... Stove top sounds like the next logical step. I better start watching some videos and put a shopping list together as I have a little Birthday money leftover

 

[braziliain]

I brew 9L batches on my stove top using a 15L stock pot and a mesh bag. I use a 15L bucket as a fermenter and typically a 9L batch gives me a case (24 x 330ml bottles) of beer.

Another advantage of small batch is less condensation. I brew with the window and door open without any issues.

It works for me, as I enjoy the brewing process and don't drink a large amount like yourself. I might drink 12 and give the rest away from each batch. I can brew something different every 4 weeks or so.

I did one kit back in September last year, then went straight to stove top AG. The kit was a bit disappointing. The stove top brews on the other hand, I find it hard to believe I made them!

Go for it, small batch AG is fun, worth the effort and isn't significantly more expensive. It will still be cheaper than kits or extract.

 

[sanch3z]

So I have one kit on and two more left to do. I plan to mix these up a bit and try adding some fruit. Once they are underway I will start getting prepared for AG. I'm pretty excited as I felt the kits gave a decent pint, if people are saying AG is another level then I can hardly wait!

 

[Honk]

Another vote for stove top ag brewing, whilst it is a long brew day it's not that intensive, you can do other things during the mash etc and the results are certainly worth it.

You may find yourself drinking more once you get going, i do, not too much at a time just more regularly.

 

[Grizzly299]

I brew all-grain and am happy with my 23L setup.

It gives me enough to play with engineering wise and supplies me with beer. Like you I only have a three or so beers a week, my brother and father dig in to it too, so it gets consumed.

Besides,longer periods between batches gives me plenty of time to plan recipes and read about brewing.

 

[brisboy]

I'm in a very similar situation to you. I started by brewing 5 L batches and have now found my sweet spot at 10 L. It allows me to brew often and very varied brews. I've got a 15 L pot which is just big enough and brew outside on the barbeque side burner (may be an Aussie thing, sorry). A big part of the fun for me is being able to brew stuff I can't get here and j just the joy of experimentation.

 

[essexjim]

You could just brew a load of single can kits without adding extra malts, 12L instead of 22L at a time. Get used to the process, and see which styles you're happiest with (result wise).


You could progress to extract brewing with small batches.


I've found I'm drinking a lot more than before, about 2 bottles a night now, I've put on the weight that shows it.