Stout & Maltodextrin powder

[Tetsuo1981]

Hi all

Looking to get back into brewing after a hectic year (welcomed a baby-brewer to the family) and am gearing up to do a Wilko stout with 1kg of sugar (not decided on dark brown, brewing or mix of both) and 500g of extra dark DME. Wanting a decent ABV (over 5% hopefully) so planning to brew short. Been reading up on here and seen people adding maltodextrin to their brews for body and head retention. Was wondering what people's experiences were with this and where do they get if from? A quick amazon / ebay search throws loads up but looks like fitness / bodybuilding stuff?? (which I know sweet FA about!)

Any info greatly appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Gulpitdarn]

Hi Tets, Got my malto-dextrine from https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pure-Mal...var=510976844089&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Good stuff, I found it made a difference, 1kg will last you ages, although you would do better to add more DME if you are looking for higher ABV.

 

[peebee]

Looking to get back into brewing ….

I used to use maltodextrin to "fuel" my bike rides - it's relatively long-chained carbohydrate so was "slow-release" compared to sucrose (sugar). But its origins are in the brewing world. I've got some to add "body" to my "low-alcohol" beer attempts, but is unused when I discovered I could get really radical with mashing temperatures (72-75C) and introduce maltodextrin that way. You appear not to mash (extract brewer), but it's the same maltodextrin either way (but you add flavour too if you create it during mashing). But getting maltodextrin to fuel my bike rides by drinking lots of beer wasn't a great success.

So by all means add it to get body in your stout. And go easy on the sugar (eliminate it?) 'cos that does the exact opposite (thins the beer, weakens the flavour and does nothing for head retention).

Actually, brewing ABV 4-5% is more likely to result in good beer than 5+%. Strong beers exaggerate not so good flavours, if you have any, or lack of flavour if you've just used sugar to bump ABV up. But sugar has its uses in large quantities: It produces loads of alcohol if that's what's required at the expensive of beer flavour if that's not required .

 

[Tetsuo1981]

... you would do better to add more DME if you are looking for higher ABV.

Cheers for that, will have a look. I think I was just scared of getting the wrong thing and buggering it up. Didn't really want to chuck masses more DME in as it can become a bit pricey. I had good results with a wilko cerveza last year, used the can, 1kg of brewing sugar and 500g light DME and brewed it short and hit about 5%. Anyway, how much maltodextrin would you add to around 18 to 20ltrs?

Cheers

 

[Tetsuo1981]

... Brewing ABV 4-5% is more likely to result in good beer than 5+%. Strong beers exaggerate not so good flavours, if you have any, or lack of flavour if you've just used sugar to bump ABV up. But sugar has its uses in large quantities: It produces loads of alcohol if that's what's required at the expensive of beer flavour if that's not required .

.

Thanks for the reply. You're right, still only on extract but aiming for BIAB next year hopefully. I rembered from past brews and reading up that too much sugar adds abv but thins the beer and gives it a twang which is why I wanted to keep the sugars around the 1kg mark. Thought about tossing some black treacle in to bump it up but not really a fan of it so might just stick to the sugar and the DME and just brew it shorted to bump the abv while not messing with the flavour too much. Trying to hit that balance of a nice 'buzzy but tasty' rather than bland and weak. But also not interested in 'blind drunk, room spinning and tastes like licking a 9v battery' experience either!

How much maltodextrin would you use for say 18 to 20ltrs?

Cheers

 

[Drunkula]

too much sugar adds abv but thins the beer and gives it a twang

It doesn't add a twang to an all grain even at 200g per gallon, which is the same as a kit and a kilo. I did a split batch with the same beer one full grain, the other sugar and people actually preferred the sugar one, and so did I. It tasted more like beers you buy. But yeah, don't do it to save money when you go all grain, just do it because it works in the recipe.

 

[Tetsuo1981]

... don't do it to save money when you go all grain, just do it because it works in the recipe.

Thank for that. When i do go all-grain I will be followling recipes to the letter while I'm learning, wouldn't want to go off-piste! I'm just hoping for a nice stout to be proud of to get back into brewing and to christen my new fermenting fridge. Was half tempted to do it as per instructions and be done with it but have had good results with DME in the past and then saw about maltodextrin which led me here to bone up on it and pick everyone's brains.

 

[peebee]

… How much maltodextrin would you use for say 18 to 20ltrs?

I hope someone else answers that, 'cos like I said, I never actually got around to using it! But I'd got 500g and was going to try a batch (18L) with half of that. And I was doing something "odd" so even that might of been considered a lot?

(EDIT: Odd? Some yeasts won't touch maltodextrins at all, some have a bit of a go at it. I succeeded in only fermenting 1/3 of the carbohydrate in the beer, normally you'd be aiming for 3/4 or 4/5).

 

[Tetsuo1981]

... And I was doing something "odd" so even that might of been considered a lot?

I'm always doing something odd so I wouldn't worry too much!

Im sure I saw a thread on here about maltodextrin and I'm 99% sure that the consensus was around 200 / 250g to add but do you think I can find the thread again?? I'll have to keep hunting but thank you for your help and info

 

[peebee]

I think extract brewers are inclined to use more than AG brewers? Because manufacturers of extract will minimise the quantity of maltodextrins in their malt extract so the stuff can actually be removed from the tin. Maltodextrins was used a lot in the past - as glue on the back of stamps! (If you're decrepit enough like me, you'd remember licking stamps was quite pleasant - I'd always be volunteering to put Mum's Green Shield stamps in the books).

 

[terrym]

I have never added maltodextrin to any of the kits I have made up, except for one or two of the first ones I did when it came mixed within the brew enhancer I used. Never seen the point. If you buy a decent enough kit in the first place and don't dump lots of sugar into it and brew short as necessary they usually turn out OK if a bit uninspiring. You only really start to improve a one can kit by adding hops, steeping grain or coupling it with a partial mash, but adding maltodextrin to other sugars is unlikely to deliver the same lift.

 

[Tetsuo1981]

Maltodextrins was used a lot in the past - as glue on the back of stamps! (If you're decrepit enough like me, you'd remember licking stamps was quite pleasant - I'd always be volunteering to put Mum's Green Shield stamps in the books).

I think my parents first proper dinner set was courtesy of Green Sheild Stamps!! And I'm sure I remember us collecting them!! Jeez I feel old now!!

 

[Tetsuo1981]

I have never added maltodextrin to any of the kits I have made up, except for one or two of the first ones I did when it came mixed within the brew enhancer I used. Never seen the point. If you buy a decent enough kit in the first place and don't dump lots of sugar into it and brew short as necessary they usually turn out OK if a bit uninspiring. You only really start to improve a one can kit by adding hops, steeping grain or coupling it with a partial mash, but adding maltodextrin to other sugars is unlikely to deliver the same lift.

Im not knocking the wilko stuff at all, just fancied trying to add a little oomph with the little I have. I quite fancy dry hopping at some point to pimp my kits, just working up slowly to them. Out of curiosity, what kits did you add maltodextrin to? I'd love to hear your experience with it in a bit more detail as you know your onions and have been helpful in the past with your knowledge.

Cheers

 

[terrym]

Try this for your stout which is a based on what I have done in the past to Coopers stouts which come in at 1.7kg not 1.5kg like many of the Wilko one cans.
Instead of dextrose use 500g golden syrup plus 120g dark muscavado sugar, use the 500g dark DME, but also add 4 shots of strong espresso coffee (not instant). If you have access to a LHBS steep buy some chocolate malt and steep 190g of that and add the boiled extract to the wort, although this is optional. If you brew to 19 litres it will turn out about 4.5%ABV, 17 litres will give you about 5% but brewing that short may well mean the concentration of hop bitterness may be noticeable.
And for further ideas look on the two Coopers stout threads here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/coopers-original-stout-review.17817/
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/coopers-irish-stout-review.17818/

 

[Jakeyboi]

I think coopers brew enhancer is dextrose maltodextrin and dme. So I would be tempted to add 500g dme 300g dextrose and 200g maltodextrin. Something like that would give you a lower abv and a bigger body. I’m sure it will turn out good u less you go silly on one of the ingredients.

Probably best just to stick 1kg-1.5kg dme in it if you have it. Then buy two can kits as they are much better value for money.

 

[Tetsuo1981]

Try this for your stout which is a based on what I have done in the past to Coopers stouts which come in at 1.7kg not 1.5kg like many of the Wilko one cans.
Instead of dextrose use 500g golden syrup plus 120g dark muscavado sugar, use the 500g dark DME, but also add 4 shots of strong espresso coffee (not instant). If you have access to a LHBS steep buy some chocolate malt and steep 190g of that and add the boiled extract to the wort, although this is optional. If you brew to 19 litres it will turn out about 4.5%ABV, 17 litres will give you about 5% but brewing that short may well mean the concentration of hop bitterness may be noticeable.
And for further ideas look on the two Coopers stout threads here
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/coopers-original-stout-review.17817/
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/coopers-irish-stout-review.17818/

Superstar. I'll give those 2 threads a read tonight while getting little brewer down. Sadly no LHBS so might skip the chocolate malt for now but have some very strong filter coffee I could knock up (and mean heart-flutteringly strong). Like the idea of golden syrup as black treacle I've never liked. So ignoring the chocolate malt this time around, would you use your given measures for a 1.5kg can kit or should I up the levels a bit to compensate? Think 19 litres is a safe bet if you reckon 17 will get a bit bitter. And thanks for your help and advice. I've been on forums for other subjects in the past but this forum and yourself (with everyone else) have been super patient and helpful with a noob like me. It's greatly appreciated
:thumba:

 

[Tetsuo1981]

I think coopers brew enhancer is dextrose maltodextrin and dme. So I would be tempted to add 500g dme 300g dextrose and 200g maltodextrin. Something like that would give you a lower abv and a bigger body. I’m sure it will turn out good u less you go silly on one of the ingredients.

Probably best just to stick 1kg-1.5kg dme in it if you have it. Then buy two can kits as they are much better value for money.

Cheers for that. Was hoping for a slightly higher abv but think brewing short will help that rather than going overboard on additions. If I had more cash (paid 4 weekly) I'd throw more DME at it but currently have 500g extra dark DME and 1kg of brewing sugar. Got some club card vouchers for brown sugar if I fancy and sure I could scrape to some maltodextrin if needed (good old ebay / amazon). Have you used maltodextrin in the past? How did you find it if you did? Was it worth it?

 

[Gulpitdarn]

I currently have a brew on the go with..... as follows....

Recipe below is for a medium batch brew (10 litres)
1.5kg Medium Dry Malt Extract
250g Chocolate Malt - cold steeped in fridge over night.
250g Crystal Malt - 70*C steeped
150g Lactose
100g Malto-dextrine
100g Cocoa Powder (Baking)
30g East Kent Goldings Hops (for bittering)
OG:1072 - FG:10?? = % ABV

This is a tweaked brew from a similar I had done a few short weeks ago which had turned out very nice but was slightly on the watery side. This one could turn out six and a half to seven percent ABV.

 

[terrym]

Like the idea of golden syrup as black treacle I've never liked. So ignoring the chocolate malt this time around, would you use your given measures for a 1.5kg can kit or should I up the levels a bit to compensate? Think 19 litres is a safe bet if you reckon 17 will get a bit bitter. And thanks for your help and advice.

These are the quantities I use for the Coopers kits so I would not change them. Be aware that the dark muscavado sugar brings a very very subtle treacly flavour to the beer which I think enhances it, which is the opposite of using 500g of black treacle and finding it spoilt the beer by overpowering it (as some on here seem to have found out). And if you use golden syrup, supermarket own brand squeegy bottles are best because they are cheaper than T&L and you can easily measure out quantities compared to pouring from a tin.

 

[peebee]

I fell out with treacle not so long ago after years of using it in one particular formulation. It has a dominating "smooth" finish that I didn't immediately recognise as treacle. But as you start turning out decent beer on a regular basis that dominating (masking) flavour starts to become annoying. I do not use treacle (or molasses) any longer, but golden syrup I do use instead of plain sugar (remember to allow for its water content if calculating the extract it gives). It was illustrated to me how similar golden syrup is to No.1 Invert Sugar (that UK breweries use) and somewhat pleasant to suck on too, so I use it now instead of white sugar (which I was always reluctant to use anyway).

500g was 4-5x more treacle than I'd even use in 20-25L anyway .


I think the reason home-brewers used it years ago was down to "association" alone - you'd get a very dark beer in a pub and someone would say "that tastes treacly", but it doesn't, it's just black. But the home-brewers in the party start trying to copy the beer by chucking in treacle! "Old Perculier" springs to mind, because I was dragged into that nonsense decades ago.