steam sterilising

[Teenage Kicks]

i have just found my old baby bottle steam steriliser in the garage and was wondering if it is ok to use for things like corks, airlocks, bungs, siphon tubing and other small things?

seems a shame to knock up a pan full of solution for bottling day especially for corks which just float ontop of the solution

 

[Gayle]

If it's good enough for baby's bottles it's good enough for homebrew :thumb: as a bonus they won't need rinse!

 

[Teenage Kicks]

thats what i thought, but i have had some "good" ideas in the past that have been rather costly and a right arse to clean up so i thought i would check first, cheers

 

[stu9000]

I'd be interested to read some views on this too. I was using my old wallpaper stripper to steam sterilise bottles. Worked a treat. But I had a couple of bad bottles. Two out of 60. But at the time I was a little spooked so spoke to the local homebrew shop. He said that some of the little nasties we are trying to kill off are quite heat resistant and sterilising was a better way to go. Not sure what to think now, but I do get bored of all the rinsing!!!

 

[31bb3]

I made a steam steraliser that fits to a wallpaper stripper I've done hundreds of bottles with an issue

 

[graysalchemy]

I use a baby sterilizer for when I make up yeast samples for freezing all the pots are sterilized in it. :thumb:

 

[Gayle]

It's usually only spore forming bacteria that can survive steam/heat sterilisation, and they can usually survive chemical sterilisation too. A solution of bleach should work though. I'm no expert on bacteria, I've just done my food hygiene course, but most of these endospores originate in unclean water, soil and faeces, so shouldn't normally be a problem in homebrewing. I don't think I've ever heard of a baby being poisoned because the steam steriliser didn't work, even if formula tins are bacteria havens!

 

[jkp]

I use a baby sterilizer ....

:shock:
And some people say that China's human rights record is poor :nah:

 

[bobsbeer]

For bottles I use videne in one of those bottle washer things, but bleach for the tops. The bottles go on a bottle tree and the tops get a rinse and onto the draining board. Rinsing 30 tops only takes a few minutes.

 

[DrD]

Can't say about homebrew as I'm pretty new to it, but from a laboratory perspective various species of fungi and bacteria have a habit of sporulating when stressed (i.e. nutrient depleted, dehydrated, in the presence of certain compounds etc etc). Being in the nutrient depleted, alcoholic and increasingly concentrated remnants of an empty wine bottle is pretty ideal for driving fungi/bacteria to sporulate. The spores are ridiculously resistant to sterilisation compared to their non spore counterparts, so things like boiling, steaming, UV can have little effect.

In the lab I use a high pressure autoclave (like a pressure cooker), which heats things up to about 130 C and stays there for a few hours. This gets most things although you can occasionally have survivors. A quick blast in a steam steriliser probably wont knock out some spores, so try to prevent them forming in the first place (i.e. rinse and dry bottles rather than letting them fester and go mouldy).

If you ever wondered why you aren't supposed to reheat rice, it is because things like Bacillus cereus produce endospores and are found in dried rice, the endospores survive the first boiling then once cooled, start to grow in the cooked rice. The toxins produced by the bacteria are then resistant to reheating which is why fried rice and reheated rice can be dodgy.

 

[krazypara3165]

just a quick one, is the steam produced by a dishwasher strong enough? the last bunch of wine i made went into bottles straight from the dishwasher

 

[oldbloke]

Not really, no. In fact my dishwasher doesn't always even get all the normal muck out, let alone bacteria, spores, etc. I give my bottles a half hour no-soap run in the dishwasher, then a half hour soak in VWP, and then check to see if that comes back out clean - doesn't always, and then it's bottle brush time and a further half hour of VWP.

 

[Aleman]

In the lab I use a high pressure autoclave (like a pressure cooker), which heats things up to about 130 C and stays there for a few hours. This gets most things although you can occasionally have survivors. A quick blast in a steam steriliser probably wont knock out some spores, so try to prevent them forming in the first place (i.e. rinse and dry bottles rather than letting them fester and go mouldy).

+1 It's so good to finally hear from someone else that using a piddly baby bottle steriliser , wallpaper stripper, steam bullet, dishwasher isn't a good idea. . . . Although I suspect (know) the advice and information will fall on a lot of deaf ears . . . God knows I've tried . . . . (now wanders off in search of the head in his hands smilie)

Good cleaning will remove a lot . . .and then the (correct) sanitation / disinfection procedure will eliminate the vast majority of what's left. . . possibly down to the level where you get away with it . . . Which is fine




. . . .. . Until you don't :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Hawks]

If you ever wondered why you aren't supposed to reheat rice, it is because things like Bacillus cereus produce endospores and are found in dried rice, the endospores survive the first boiling then once cooled, start to grow in the cooked rice. The toxins produced by the bacteria are then resistant to reheating which is why fried rice and reheated rice can be dodgy.

And once you experience the effects of ' can be dodgy' once you will NEVER reheat rice again :shock:

 

[jkp]

If you ever wondered why you aren't supposed to reheat rice, it is because things like Bacillus cereus produce endospores and are found in dried rice, the endospores survive the first boiling then once cooled, start to grow in the cooked rice. The toxins produced by the bacteria are then resistant to reheating which is why fried rice and reheated rice can be dodgy.

Living in China for several years now I've often been confused by this point. The Chinese usually cook large quantities of rice in one go and reheat it over two or three meals, and of course fried rice is often made from few day old cooked rice. They never seem to worry about reheating rice and it doesn't seem to actually cause them any problems either. So perhaps it's a bit of a myth or largely overstated.

 

[DrD]

Living in China for several years now I've often been confused by this point. The Chinese usually cook large quantities of rice in one go and reheat it over two or three meals, and of course fried rice is often made from few day old cooked rice. They never seem to worry about reheating rice and it doesn't seem to actually cause them any problems either. So perhaps it's a bit of a myth or largely overstated.

It's not all that common, although probably more common than reported as the symptoms look a lot like other types of food poisoning. Worth noting that B. cereus poisoning is usually known as fried rice syndrome. There are various strains of B cereus too, some cause disease, some don't. Could be the nastier types aren't as common in Chinese soil/paddy fields? Not something I've looked into tbh.

I think reheating rice is one of those things you do, up until the point that the contents of your bowels could fit through a sieve and your guts feel like you have swallowed an angry pyromaniac midget.

 

[oldbloke]

My missus commonly eats half a takeaway, sticks the rest in the fridge and eats it next day. (a) She doesn't leave it more than a day (b) it's kept in a fridge. Oh and (c) she doesn't re-heat it. Usually

 

[Hawks]

My missus commonly eats half a takeaway, sticks the rest in the fridge and eats it next day. (a) She doesn't leave it more than a day (b) it's kept in a fridge. Oh and (c) she doesn't re-heat it. Usually

From my understanding half the battle is cool it quickly and get it in the fridge and you should restrict the growth.. Of course, if its a takeaway you don't know how it was looked after before it got to you...

I used to do the same for years, however, having had one of said midgets running around my bowels I just cook enough to eat or if its from a takeaway any leftover rice goes in the bin.
Most of the time though I'll sit at the table until there is nothing left... because I'm a greedy b*stard

 

[jkp]

When I lived in South Korea a friend would make rice in one of those rice cookers and then leave it on the "keep warm" setting so that he could eat some during the week whenever he needed it. Amazed he never had any midget problems either.

 

[Hawks]

When I lived in South Korea a friend would make rice in one of those rice cookers and then leave it on the "keep warm" setting so that he could eat some during the week whenever he needed it. Amazed he never had any midget problems either.

Maybe keeps it warm enough to stop growth ?


tbh its probably much like the using steam to sterilise bottles... you COULD be fine for years as it's not hugely common, but it can happen, it does happen, and some are more of a pain in the ar*e than others when they do...