Starsan - my concerns....please help

[kev]

Okey dokey, I've been using VWP for about 10+ years now and had no problems. When I started homebrewing all these fancy US things were hard to get so I never bothered with Starsan. Over the last year I've heard loads about it. It's no rinse, re-usable, cheap, blah blah blah. Anyway, I bought some about a month ago and here's my thoughts/concerns.

People speak of :

"when it goes cloudy you can't use it"

Well mine goes cloudy in about 2 mins?! WTF is that all about? I live in Scotland so my water's totally pure and nice. Why is it going cloudy so quick and does that mean it's useless?

In addition, it's a no rinse formula.....so why does it leave a film over everything?! It feels "slimey" and not nice to touch.

Lastly, most of the youtube demos show guys splashing it around in their FV's to coat the surfaces then they're sanitised?! Is that right? I've been soaking for >10 mins as per usual to sanitise but am I wasting my time? Should I just put 1 gallon of water and Starsan in my fermenter and slosh it about?!

Think I might go back to VWP as I knew where I was with that stuff.

K

PS: Here's a pic of my starsan about 5 mins after mixing

 

[adomant]

I use it as a no rinse sanitiser at .75ml in a 50ml hdpe spray bottle, I use distilled or dionised water and put a drop of phosphoric acid (you can use citric). I don;t reuse it, just spray things I want clean before use.

I use VWP to clean the FV and kill bugs, metabisulphate + citric to get rid of the chlorine and then a spray of starsan to keep it sanitsed before use. I also flush with boiling water before the wort goes in.

Writing this down, I see how OCD this might sound, but hope that helps a little.

 

[daveozzz]

Hmm, that is cloudy right enough. I live in Scotland too and mine doesn't do that. Could try some in some sort of purified water and see if it acts differently.. if it does then it must be something to do with your tap water (probably).

What dilution are you using?

As for using it.. I usually just make up a spray bottle of it. Once everything's clean, just mist the hell out of it getting everything wet, wait 30 seconds, and you're good to go.

 

[kev]

Ok so I'm learning something already. I've been using it like VWP and soaking my stuff in it. Maybe I'm better using something to soak/clean and then skoosh some Starsan on before use. Not what I'm used to but if it's working for you guys.

Also, for big sterilising jobs (FV's, etc) I've been going by the bottle and using 1oz per 5 US gallons. For the pics below I used the guide on this site - 1.5ml per litre.

Following the tap water (potential) issue, I've conducted an extremely scientific experiment.

Two bottles of Sainsburys water, one marked tap and one marked bottle :

"Tap" bottle emptied and re-filled with my tap water :

1.5ml per litre added to both bottles and shaken to mix :

"Tap" bottle visibly cloudy after 1 min :

So am I right in saying I should buy bottled water and make up spray bottles of Starsan with that to use in conjunction with another cleaner??

 

[adomant]

I thinks so, at that rate it is a good foaming rinse free sanitiser, the spray bottle gives you the foam.
Bottled water is fine but distilled or dionised would be better, more expensive but you are saving money by using starsan more efficiently

 

[kev]

STOP PRESS :

Just been outside to check - it's been about 15-25 mins since the "experiment". Whilst the tap bottle is really cloudy (to be expected) so is the bottled water?!

WTF is going on?!

Can I use this stuff at all?!

K

 

[kev]

I thinks so, at that rate it is a good foaming rinse free sanitiser, the spray bottle gives you the foam.
Bottled water is fine but distilled or dionised would be better, more expensive but you are saving money by using starsan more efficiently

Ok, just read this after I posted my pic above.

Can I get distilled or deionised water in supermarkets?!

K

 

[adomant]

yes, or petrol station.

 

[kev]

Most excellent.

I plan to continue using VWP for deep cleaning, etc and use Starsan via a spray (and distilled water) for wetting before use of equipment.

Would I be right in saying that if I use VWP on a FV and leave it for a week (sealed) I can then literally spray on Starsan and drop wort into it? In addition, could I make up 1 gallon and slosh it around a clean keg to sanitise?

K

 

[Kev888]

Hi,
Its the PH of many people's tap water that stops starsan working, not impurities. Its an acid sanitiser; if your water isn't suitable it can prevent the mixed starsan solution being acid enough (IIRC less than 3.0). If this happens it goes cloudy so you can tell, though unfortunately/rarely it can apparently go cloudy for other reasons too.

if in doubt you can test with PH measuring papers, or use water like distilled, deionised (DI), or reverse osmosis (RO) water, sold for steam irons, car battery top-up, aquariums etc, or some bottled water works too (IIRC tesco ashbeck is one).

Yes it only needs a short contact time - officially I think 30seconds but thats for legal reasons; its said to be shorter in reality. This makes it great because you can quickly wet things rather than having to fill them and wait, then rinse. You can slosh it about or I like to use a small garden spray bottle. Another benefit of starsan is that it keeps quite well even when mixed, so (with low-PH water) it can sit in the spray bottle for some weeks and be on hand whenever you need a squirt (as it were).

BUT that speed is when used on clean things; starsan is a sanitiser not a cleaner or combined sanitiser/cleaner- it will quickly clean in a micro-biological sense but isn't designed to shift physical dirt; it may penetrate it given time (and its supposed to be quite good at coping with organics) but its best to use a soaking-type cleaner if there's physical crudd left (e.g. PBW, oxyclean, soda crystals etc) or a combined cleaner/sterilizer like your VWP.

Its said to be no-rinse because any residue left is not harmful, not because there's no residue (although I haven't noticed very much, to be honest). The manufacturer drank a glass of it to demonstrate this, though being acidic I think he may have liked an anti-acid tablet afterwards!

EDIT: Your plan to use VWP to clean stuff after use and then use starsan just before use is a very good one. I do something very similar, though I use cheaper cleaners than VWP. If your uses may be a while apart though, its ideally best to let the equipment dry after cleaning and rinsing (very few nasties thrive on dry stuff, whilst they can live/grow in residual tap water).

Cheers
kev

 

[kev]

Great post thanks.

Reckon I'll try that Tesco Ashbeck stuff before splashing (pardon the pun) out on distilled water.

Ta

K

 

[ScottM]

Good thread this, very informative.

I think I'll be splashing out on a bottle of starsan to work alongside my VWP method.

The routine I have at the moment is to clean immediately after use, and then clean/sanitise with VWP immediately before use. This leads to a lot of rinsing and waiting etc. If I could just do the clean with VWP after use and then do a quick squirt with starsan before use I would save hours in the long run.

:thumb:

 

[kev]

Good thread this, very informative.

I think I'll be splashing out on a bottle of starsan to work alongside my VWP method.

The routine I have at the moment is to clean immediately after use, and then clean/sanitise with VWP immediately before use. This leads to a lot of rinsing and waiting etc. If I could just do the clean with VWP after use and then do a quick squirt with starsan before use I would save hours in the long run.

:thumb:

Exactly like me.

VWP after ferment then VWP before dropping wort in. Costs money and is a pain.

If I can get RO or distilled water cheap then I'm laughing.

K

 

[alanywiseman.]

"when it goes cloudy you can't use it"

Is this really true? I have been using starsan for almost a year now. I live in glasgow and my solution will stay clear for maybe a week before it starts to go cloudy (using tap water). The reason for the solution going cloudy is due to the minerals in the water.

As many have said starsan is an acid steriliser. When the pH is below 3.5 you are good to go. Once you start to fill you starsaned FV, for example, the pH of the remaing solution will increase above 3.5 and in doing so the steraliser becomes nutrient for the yeast.

I used the same solution of starsan for about 2-3 months with no ill effects (yet). I am not saying it is good practise but if the pH is below 3.5 then it will do its job, cloudy or not.

 

[alanywiseman.]

most of the information came from this interview with the maker of starsan :thumb:

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrew ... -29-07.mp3

 

[kev]

I bought some PH strips last night so when they arrive I'll know for sure about my tap water, etc.

K

 

[Kev888]

I bought some PH strips last night so when they arrive I'll know for sure about my tap water, etc.

K

Good stuff - though don't forget its the mixed solution you need to measure, rather than the tap water. If its <3 then great, and it'd also be a good test to see how long it stays that way.

Cheers
Kev

 

[kev]

Aye will do. Bought some Tesco Ashbeck water today to try also.

K

 

[Buster]

I,ve used Tesco 5ltr Ashbeck Water for a year now with no problems of cloudy water, I put 7.5ml from a syringe straight into the bottle of Ashbeck and stick it on the shelf till I need it, the froth is a bit of a pain but apparently it acts like a yeast nutrient ( only told that btw ). I clean all my FV,s and plastic buckets with an overnight soak in Oxiclean in VERY hot water and rinse out twice the following day with cold water. I get that from the 99p shop and only put 1 scoop in a full 25ltr FV. Hope that helps to settle your mind, its all down to Ph levels in the water, Starsan I think requires Ph3 or below for maximum operation but as I say, Ashbeck is perfect here.

 

[kev]

Funnily enough, I've just done the above...........will report back in an hour or two. If it's not gone cloudy by then I'll be happy.

5 Litres of un-opened Ashbeck water

Adding 7.5ml via oral syringe

Mixed up

Alongside bottles from yesterday (see above)