Stabbing attack at London bridge.

[Clint]

The thing is you can't just lock up violent criminals, terrorists,rapists and murderers just incase they get offended...or someone on their behalf does or might do sometime soon.
Perhaps they should bring back the good old,no messing about...hung,drawn and quartered.
That would be a great deterrent and change some minds.
Send all snowflakes to somewhere they might feel happy...like Antarctica.
:tinhat:

 

[Rodcx500z]

I would like to apologize for the link I posted last night which was removed it was out of order on here a beer forum, I really don't want to leave as I have learnt so much from all on here and I promise I will stay away from political debates

 

[MyQul]

Perhaps they should bring back the good old,no messing about...hung,drawn and quartered.
That would be a great deterrent and change some minds.
Send all snowflakes to somewhere they might feel happy...like Antarctica.
:tinhat:

Lets go back even further back and re-instate weregild. Pay 200 shillings for killing a churl, 1,200 for killing a nobleman. How much for a forumite?

 

[kelper]

Some IPP sentences were quashed because the prisons offered no rehabilitation courses so the inmates had no way to satisfy the Parole Board and therefore could never qualify for release. Indeterminate sentences are still described on government websites but IPPs don't exist for new prisoners (since 2012).

 

[marshbrewer]

His indeterminate sentence was changed to a determinate sentence by the Court of Appeal. Nothing to do with the ECJ.

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the way it worked was that the ECJ rules something is incompatible with human rights, then the UK courts have to take that into consideration when making rulings? So in this case because they had ruled indeterminate sentences incompatible with human rights laws, when matey appealed, his sentence had to be modified?

 

[kelper]

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought the way it worked was that the ECJ rules something is incompatible with human rights, then the UK courts have to take that into consideration when making rulings? So in this case because they had ruled indeterminate sentences incompatible with human rights laws, when matey appealed, his sentence had to be modified?

I don't know. But indeterminate sentences are still available. His sentence was modified because the appeal court felt he should be treated in the same way as his fellow conspirators.

 

[marshbrewer]

I'm confused! This suggests they aren't!

 

[kelper]

I'm confused! This suggests they aren't!

IPPs were scrapped in 2012 for new offenders which is about when that was written. There are still thousands of men and women serving IPPs. I was wrong to stay they are still available.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I really don't want to leave

Glad to read that. :thumba:

 

[simon12]

I think this gives a brief explanation of what kelper is saying

 

[kelper]

Khan was not convicted of any violence; he was convicted of plotting to blow up the London Stock Exchange and plotting to set up a training camp in Kashmir on land owned by his family. He was unlikely to have got far with these plots as he had no resources. If he had been convicted of violent offences he would have been given a very long sentence and been better supervised on release. His horrible attack in London was not foreseen. I'm no expert but spent many hours researching this to try and understand how he came to be released. The authorities are already recalling similar persons and rechecking to see if they are complying with the terms of their release. I'm sorry if people think all criminals should be locked up and throw away the key. Civilised societies don't do this. I certainly agree that he should have been locked up. We have more prisoners per head of population than any country in Western Europe so I don't think we should be looking for more and longer sentences. While British pilots and drone operators are killing civilians in the Middle East (albeit unintentionally) we will continue to face hostility from many British Muslims.

 

[marshbrewer]

I don't think all criminals should be locked up and they key thrown away, but there are certain crimes that locking the miscreant up serves as much to protect the public than punish the offender. I am sympathetic to the opinion that we lock up far too many people for crazy things, and oft ignore massive underlying issues around substance misuse and mental health, which would probably be better treated than left unchecked in prison.

 

[kelper]

There are still people in prison who were given IPPs who have served terms far longer they would have under a determinate sentence. They are trapped in the system. None of the revised laws was retrospective. I was reading of a case where someone was convicted of an offence which carried a maximum penalty of two years, yet they are still in jail after eight years.

 

[DavidDetroit]

@MyQul
I see these posted around Michigan. My mind always comes to a grinding halt on the value placed on the life of a construction worker being $7,500 (5723.14 pounds).

 

[MyQul]

@MyQul
I see these posted around Michigan. My mind always comes to a grinding halt on the value placed on the life of a construction worker being $7,500 (5723.14 pounds).

What exactly is that poster? An insurance poster or something?

Even though is seems distasteful to put a value on a human life, it's done all the time. E.g in the medical industry and insurance. We dont have medical insurance here as you may know but decisions are made all the time on whether to for example buy/provide certain types of medicines/treatments based on cost, in the NHS

I read something or other a long time ago about the airline industry along the lines of whether it cost more to pay out insurance or put extra safety features on a plane will determine whether they do so or not

 

[DavidDetroit]

the airline industry along the lines of whether it cost more to pay out insurance or put extra safety features on a plane will determine whether they do so or not

That sounds so cold but I am not surprised. If it were me? I think I'd rather sleep peacefully at night knowing I'm giving my fellow man a fair shake than have a bunch of extra money earned that way.

The photo is of a road sign and they're posted where construction work is occurring.

 

[Rodcx500z]

What exactly is that poster? An insurance poster or something?

Even though is seems distasteful to put a value on a human life, it's done all the time. E.g in the medical industry and insurance. We dont have medical insurance here as you may know but decisions are made all the time on whether to for example buy/provide certain types of medicines/treatments based on cost, in the NHS

I read something or other a long time ago about the airline industry along the lines of whether it cost more to pay out insurance or put extra safety features on a plane will determine whether they do so or not

you are right MyQul, there is an airline investigation program which covers a boeing 747 accident caused by faulty cargo door latches, boeing knew of the problem these particular latches failed in flight ripping a hole in the plane I think 7 people were sucked out and died, in the program someone asks is it cheaper to pay or upgrade a lot planes answer (cost of doing business) which is terrible, one of the fathers of a lad who died was an engineer from New Zealand he proved they were faulty and boeing knew about it, all he asked was a public apology which he got, boeing has a long history of cost of doing business which catching up with them with the latest incidents

 

[Clint]

Something similar..along the lines of ..assuming crash position in a plane..it's probably designed to kill you outright as paying a one off compo is cheaper than rest of life care for someone crippled.

 

[MyQul]

you are right MyQul, there is an airline investigation program which covers a boeing 747 accident caused by faulty cargo door latches, boeing knew of the problem these particular latches failed in flight ripping a hole in the plane I think 7 people were sucked out and died, in the program someone asks is it cheaper to pay or upgrade a lot planes answer (cost of doing business) which is terrible, one of the fathers of a lad who died was an engineer from New Zealand he proved they were faulty and boeing knew about it, all he asked was a public apology which he got, boeing has a long history of cost of doing business which catching up with them with the latest incidents

Yes, I think that's the programme Im refering to

 

[foxy]

The thing is you can't just lock up violent criminals, terrorists,rapists and murderers just incase they get offended...or someone on their behalf does or might do sometime soon.
Perhaps they should bring back the good old,no messing about...hung,drawn and quartered.
That would be a great deterrent and change some minds.
Send all snowflakes to somewhere they might feel happy...like Antarctica.
:tinhat:

I would be sending them to meet their maker, political correctness has gone to far, here in Australia there seems to be an abhorrent reaction of saying 'black' example, a group of people of African appearance raided an Apple store stealing mobile phones. African appearance? Do they appear to be African? Or are they The Black and White Minstrels who have fallen on hard times? Bring back the birch, bring back all corporal punishment and bring back hanging.
Is it true that **** Turpins horse is now to be known as 'Beauty ' not 'Black Beauty' ?