Spotless Water.

[Jiffy176]

Hi all anyone done a spotless analysis and found out what the sodium content is?
Trying to work it out for Brewfather.

Also trying to work out bicarbonate as hCO3. I have alkalinity and total hardness reported as cac03 can it be worked out from this figure?
Thanks.

 

[hoppyscotty]

It tells you on the screen at a Spotless location. Basically sweet FA of TDS...trace elements only. So assume nothing.

 

[Jiffy176]

No that's not the case someone did a water profile on here but was after sodium but they do have some bits of interest in it.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Yes and it confirmed “there was nothing in it”…. It’s in the water treatment thread from a few weeks ago.

 

[RichardM]

Yes and it confirmed “there was nothing in it”…. It’s in the water treatment thread from a few weeks ago.

I thought someone had sent some spotless water to Murphy's for analysis and the report came back saying there was a tiny bit of some minerals.
The Spotless site says there are zero TDS and that is what I use in my calculations.

 

[hoppyscotty]

From memory the tds score on the spotless outlet is something like 0.01 or something so tiny trace elements I take that as. I just use the standard RO profile in Brewfather.

 

[Jiffy176]

I'm just wading through that thread now

 

[Rwilts]

I signed up for spotless in 2023 and did a few brews , last year I did 6 brews only using tap water , in both cases I carried out water treatment, TBH I am struggling to find a reason to bother collecting the spotless water , whilst I am sure there is a difference, I can't taste it...

 

[hoppyscotty]

Well for me it's about consistency and ph management. My tap water makes decent enough beer, but I need to add alot of acid due to the buffering capacity of the water. Mostly with Spottless I rarely had to add acid. Recently I've turned back to tap water as I've increased capacity such that it's not really feasible to use Spotless without a pick up truck and a large water container. I've started doing quarterly lab analysis of my tap water to assess consistency, but could dilute with Spottless to manage ph.

For me water chemistry has been a noticeable, but more minor improvement to my beer journey.

 

[Rwilts]

I agree, since doing water treatment my beer has improved..

 

[jof]

I'm currently brewing at 50% spotless & 50% tap water. No extra additions & I think the result is better than 100% tap water.

But spotless locations are not super convenient, so unless I remember to take a container & collect some when I'm passing near to one of their machines, it is cheaper to buy bottled water at the local supermarket than do a special trip.

 

[YeastFace]

24/7 Water is another RO provider worth a look if you don't have a Spotless near you.

 

[MashBag]

I signed up for spotless in 2023 and did a few brews , last year I did 6 brews only using tap water , in both cases I carried out water treatment, TBH I am struggling to find a reason to bother collecting the spotless water , whilst I am sure there is a difference, I can't taste it...

Water treatment makes a difference.

Where you get your original water from not so. Providing it was drinkable in the first place without significant faults.

Bottled or spotless water is a preference for some people, but I don't think I have seen a case mandating it because the tap water was soooo bad it could not be treated.

 

[tondy79]

I am using spotless water, largely because the station is only about a mile away, and it removes some uncertainty about the starting water profile. I will also happily use tap water here in Peterborough with some adjustments.

One unknown I have about using tap water is how to (or whether to) account for the campden tablet in the water chemistry, should I be recording a sodium metabisulphate addition?

 

[Davegase]

Hi all anyone done a spotless analysis and found out what the sodium content is?
Trying to work it out for Brewfather.

Also trying to work out bicarbonate as hCO3. I have alkalinity and total hardness reported as cac03 can it be worked out from this figure?
Thanks.

This is the analysis I got from Murphy's. multiply the alkalinity as cac03 by 1.22.
In this case it's 4.88.

 

[Davegase]

I signed up for spotless in 2023 and did a few brews , last year I did 6 brews only using tap water , in both cases I carried out water treatment, TBH I am struggling to find a reason to bother collecting the spotless water , whilst I am sure there is a difference, I can't taste it...

I can treat my tap water but it does require a lot of acid for all types of beer, and tap water can vary throughout the year.
I don't want to pay for repeated analysis and my Thames water report is pretty useless.
Spotless water is consistent, I paid for one analysis and I don't need to repeat it.
I can probably save my acid for descaling the kettle

 

[RichardM]

I can treat my tap water but it does require a lot of acid for all types of beer, and tap water can vary throughout the year.
I don't want to pay for repeated analysis and my Thames water report is pretty useless.
Spotless water is consistent, I paid for one analysis and I don't need to repeat it.
I can probably save my acid for descaling the kettle

How do you know Spotless water is consistent if you have only had it analysed once?
I use Spotless to save paying for repeated analyses of my tap water and treat it as having zero ppm TDS.

I wonder what results I would get if I sent some for analysis.

 

[Davegase]

How do you know Spotless water is consistent if you have only had it analysed once?
I use Spotless to save paying for repeated analyses of my tap water and treat it as having zero ppm TDS.

I wonder what results I would get if I sent some for analysis.

The stations are monitored and well maintained.
As you're in the Cardiff area your tap water will have a lot less in it than mine. So your Spotless water may be slightly different to mine, not so much as to make a difference.
If you do get an analysis of your local spotless water please post it, I would like to see it to compare. To get a Murphy's analysis I would suggest you go direct to them and create an account. It works out a lot cheaper than going through a reseller.

 

[Agentgonzo]

This is the analysis I got from Murphy's. multiply the alkalinity as cac03 by 1.22.
In this case it's 4.88.View attachment 108066

Nice. These levels of minerals are so small that you could just consider them all to be zero. The accuracy of home scales/measuring spoons probably has a similar size of error.

And I'd bet my house that no-one would be able to tell the difference in the finished beer because the numbers are so small.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Water treatment makes a difference.

Where you get your original water from not so. Providing it was drinkable in the first place without significant faults.

Bottled or spotless water is a preference for some people, but I don't think I have seen a case mandating it because the tap water was soooo bad it could not be treated.

Mostly true I'd say, especially in the UK...I'd say consistency is important...your water company only needs to provide you with water that is safe and within all the spec's they are required to delivery by law, They will do this to a cost and so depending on where the water comes from depends on how much processing is needed. My water report showed that pretty much all the contents of the water was to the lowest level quoted on my water suppliers report (which gives min, average, max numbers)...now I'm assessing how consistent it is so again if the supply is not consistent then I'll need to look for ways to mitigate that depending on how big the swings are.

Also high buffering capacity can be an issue because you need to add more acid and if you have to add alot of acid then that can impact your beer. Appreciate there are different ways you can manage ph which might all have differing impacts on the end result.

Also for some beer styles the target profiles I'm shooting for some of the elements are higher than I'd like, so you can always add, but you can't take away. Again so long as its within limits its not a major problem but when you're chasing those fine tweaks, then you start digging a bit deeper, or if you are wanting to experiment you might be limited.

Anyway its all fun of the game.