Sour / Funky Beer Request

[Zephyr259]

After reading more of the mad fermentationist blog I'm curious about brewing some sour and or funky beers but I don't know what to expect, tasting notes sound appealing but my selection of commercial gueuze and Flanders reds have been disappointing. Way too sour and quite acetic, "Barnyard" character was more of an unpleasant mouldy flavour which clashed with the acid.

So I was wondering if anyone has brewed something with a more restrained or balanced "wild side" which they'd be willing to swap. My signature is up to date with beers I can offer in trade.

Thanks

 

[Sadfield]

After reading more of the mad fermentationist blog I'm curious about brewing some sour and or funky beers but I don't know what to expect, tasting notes sound appealing but my selection of commercial gueuze and Flanders reds have been disappointing. Way too sour and quite acetic, "Barnyard" character was more of an unpleasant mouldy flavour which clashed with the acid.

So I was wondering if anyone has brewed something with a more restrained or balanced "wild side" which they'd be willing to swap. My signature is up to date with beers I can offer in trade.

Thanks

The Lambics and Flanders beers you mention have been primary fermented for years with a combination of Brettanomyces and bacteria, which develop a lot of acidity and barnyard flavours over time. If you primary ferment with standard Saccharomyces first, and then pitch Brettanomyces or bacteria in secondary for a couple of months, you will get less acidity and Brettanomyces character as they have less available sugars to work on.

Start off using Brettanomyces Clausenii as it gives the least barnyard flavours and use lactobacillus for souring, lactic acid has a softer acidity and isn't vinegary like Acetic acid. The IBUS of your wort will also keep acidity in check as Lactobacillus doesn't like hops, above 20 IBUs should limit it, giving tartness rather than lip puckering sourness.


This is a good resource http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Table_of_Contents

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[Ajhutch]

I’ve got a sour I’d be happy to swap. The funk is fairly restrained and touch wood it didn’t get acetic, like you I’m not keen on that. It’s a fairly soft sourness.

I’ll drop you a PM later.

 

[Sadfield]

You may also want to look into kettle souring, sour mashing, acidulated malt and directly adding lactic acid. These are all methods that will give you more control over acidity.

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/01/souring-beer-with-acid-malt-ithaca.html?m=1

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[IainM]

Did you try Rodenbach? I find it's a very quaffable Flanders Red. If you want to try a non-traditional sour beer that isn't so in-your-face, cleaner and less funky, then there are loads: Thornebridge Tart, a sour beer for people that don't like sour beer, Calypso by Siren Craft is a good American hopped sour, and Cloudwater do a few, their "Lichtenhainer" and Bergamot Sour are interesting. Wild Beer Co. sours are generally focussed on accessibility rather than funkiness.

 

[Ajhutch]

You may also want to look into kettle souring, sour mashing, acidulated malt and directly adding lactic acid. These are all methods that will give you more control over acidity.

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/01/souring-beer-with-acid-malt-ithaca.html?m=1

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You could try a kettle sour and then ferment with a single type or a blend of Brett as well to develop a feel for the Brett in a controlled acid environment.

 

[rats_eyes]

I'd second the suggestion of trying Flanders Red ales - rodenbach grand cru and duchesse de borgogne are both sour but with some sweetness too. As a local alternative, have you tried fierce beer's fruit sours?

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[Dads_Ale]

I have a cherry Saison brewed with a Saison/Brett yeast. The brett strain has been slowly fermenting over the last couple of months and has a certain tartness rather than sourness.

 

[Zephyr259]

Wow, thanks folks, was half expecting to get up to find 20 views and no responses. :-)

@Sadfield I did wonder if I'd jumped straight into the deep end with those beers, it was coming across the flavour profile for Brett C a couple of days ago which got me interested again. Likewise, I'd been wondering if keeping it simple with just lactobacillus or doing a kettle sour might be a better start than using a complicated blended culture.

@Ajhutch Thanks for the offer, sounds more like the beers I tasted at 6 deg North which were very pleasant.

@IainM / @rats_eyes I have had a bottle of Rodenbach and the Grand Cru, I couldn't detect any malt character past the acid in the former, got bored halfway down the glass, the grand cru had a hugely acetic character which made it like drinking balsamic vinegar. I had to wonder if I was either a lost cause with a pallet way too sensitive to the acids or if the bottles had been mishandled, but the company is otherwise good. I have a duchesse de borgogne and a bourgogne de flandres remaining along with Bacchus Oud Brown and Liefmans Goudenband still to try.

Thanks for the heads up about Fierce Beers, hadn't heard of them before, didn't know we had a local sour brewery. Where's best to buy all these suggested beers? From google all I can see is beerhawk who seem pretty expensive.

@Dads_Ale That sounds very nice, I like the Kriek you can buy in tesco (bacchus?) and trying something with brett but without the souring bacteria is something I'd like.

Many thanks for the advice and offers everyone, much appreciated.

 

[rats_eyes]

Fierce Beers are quite easy to get in Aberdeen City now, most off the oddbins branches and independent off licenses have a few of them. They've also just opened a bar on Exchequer Row. I'm not sure where you'd get them out in the 'shire though. I think that their sour beers are soured with lacto pre-fermentation, most are flavoured with fruit purees, the ones I've tried have been really nice. A few pals who aren't huge on sours have enjoyed them too, so might be a good one to try!

 

[Zephyr259]

Thanks for the heads up, I've found their website and I'm in aberdeen often enough to pick up some one day. Just realised that I've had their coffee porter a couple of years ago in a restaurant in town, was pretty good from memory but rather rich and heavy.

 

[BeerCat]

I have a cherry Saison brewed with a Saison/Brett yeast. The brett strain has been slowly fermenting over the last couple of months and has a certain tartness rather than sourness.

I am kicking myself. I should of saved the dregs of your beer and had a go myself. What was i thinking off. Anyway thumbs up.

 

[Zephyr259]

That's a good point, I could save these dregs to play with. I figure I'd have to pitch them pretty quickly or is there a way to store them?

 

[darkbright]

Sour beer sub forum??????

 

[Sadfield]

That's a good point, I could save these dregs to play with. I figure I'd have to pitch them pretty quickly or is there a way to store them?

From milkthefunk:

Storing Dregs For Later Use
It is often the case that a potential bottle dregs beer will be consumed before the brewing of the wort in which it would be added. There are several options and suggestions on storing bottle dregs beers [4].

• Pitch the dregs directly into a fermenter that already has beer in it.
• Have an air-locked vessel, such as a gallon jug or an Erlenmeyer flask, with an airlock on it with a starter beer (or fresh wort) ready to collect multiple bottle dregs.
• If the brewer wants to keep the dregs separate from other cultures or does not have another vessel available as previously described, leave the last quarter inch of the beer in the bottle itself. Recap the bottle if possible, and place it in the refrigerator. If it is not possible to recap the bottle because it is a corked bottle or a wider diameter than the brewer's bottle capper/caps, cover the bottle with plastic wrap or tin foil and a rubber band. Keeping the beer cool should prevent spoilage, although this is not guaranteed without more sanitary procedures such as purging the bottle with CO2 and capping it. Although brewers have successfully stored bottle dregs beers like this for months, it is generally advisable to make a starter for the dregs at least within a few weeks so as to avoid any potential spoilage.
• Brettanomyces remains more viable over time if it was co-fermented with S. cerevisiae than if it was fermented by itself (100% Brettanomyces beers). Contrarily, S. cerevisiae loses viability over time faster when it is co-fermented with Brettanomyces [5]. This is something to keep in mind when using dregs.

 

[geigercntr]

Get on the Boon!

Don't forget to pitch the dregs

 

[Zephyr259]

Get on the Boon!

Don't forget to pitch the dregs

I've had Marriage Parfait and it was ok, but I don't think I was able to finish the bottle. Thanks for the recommendation, I do want to try their kriek.

 

[geigercntr]

I've had Marriage Parfait and it was ok, but I don't think I was able to finish the bottle. Thanks for the recommendation, I do want to try their kriek.

Yeah, I quite like the Mariage Parfait, but my preference is always the standard Oude Geuze. Really well balanced tart/funk. I'm not a fan of overly sour beers (or even the term 'sour beer' tbh, but that's a different matter!)

 

[darkbright]

Yeah, I quite like the Mariage Parfait, but my preference is always the standard Oude Geuze. Really well balanced tart/funk. I'm not a fan of overly sour beers (or even the term 'sour beer' tbh, but that's a different matter!)

Out hipstering the hipsters. I like it. What do we call sour beer now?

Agree with the marriage parfait thing. Was happy to try it but wasn't anything special. The standard Oude Gueuze is the ****, however.

 

[darkbright]

After reading more of the mad fermentationist blog I'm curious about brewing some sour and or funky beers but I don't know what to expect, tasting notes sound appealing but my selection of commercial gueuze and Flanders reds have been disappointing. Way too sour and quite acetic, "Barnyard" character was more of an unpleasant mouldy flavour which clashed with the acid.

So I was wondering if anyone has brewed something with a more restrained or balanced "wild side" which they'd be willing to swap. My signature is up to date with beers I can offer in trade.

Thanks

The wild beer selection of sours is ok. I like the Redwood.