Some questions about the Wyeast Pilsen smack pack

[Covrich]

I have used get er brewed wyeast fine.. I think part of the problem is transportation of liquid yeast from the other side of the planet is always going to be a factor which is why I would personally reccomend making a starter even with that activator.. I would make a proper one personally, and as for a lager well.. you absolutely should make one because with lager yeast you need to pitch twice as much..

Even with dry yeast it is normal practice to pitch 2 packets.

You may get away with this but this is probably the lag time because you have underpitched.. You may have to repitch..

 

[W0nderW0man]

I have used get er brewed wyeast fine.. I think part of the problem is transportation of liquid yeast from the other side of the planet is always going to be a factor which is why I would personally reccomend making a starter even with that activator.. I would make a proper one personally, and as for a lager well.. you absolutely should make one because with lager yeast you need to pitch twice as much..

Even with dry yeast it is normal practice to pitch 2 packets.

You may get away with this but this is probably the lag time because you have underpitched.. You may have to repitch..

Well I think for this 12l batch, one pack should have been fine (both dry or liquid) but in my case, I am expecting to re-pitch I guess. Just not sure whether to get another Wyeast and therefore to stick with the same strand or a saflager 37/40 as it is a lot cheaper and stores better.

I'm waiting to hear back from geterbrewed now, see that they say. I'm hoping they'll stick another one in the post to be honest, but I my be dreaming :P

 

[Covrich]

Well I think for this 12l batch, one pack should have been fine (both dry or liquid) but in my case, I am expecting to re-pitch I guess. Just not sure whether to get another Wyeast and therefore to stick with the same strand or a saflager 37/40 as it is a lot cheaper and stores better.

I'm waiting to hear back from geterbrewed now, see that they say. I'm hoping they'll stick another one in the post to be honest, but I my be dreaming :P

Apologies I missed the 12L. well in that case it may still go off fine.. I still recommend a starter with them and perhaps you could have left it to activate longer, never mind put it down to experience and fingers crossed it will start ok.

I think if in doubt always make a starter and aerate extremely well especially if you want to harvest the yeast aswell, these practices do not only help this batch but the following generations.

 

[W0nderW0man]

Yeah, fingers crossed! I have to say, really they should advertise it differently and suggest a starter at least for lagers if that's better. so... How much longer should/can I give this one to get going before I need to repitch? So I know when to order backup :P

And... if it does get going... how long shall I keep it at room temperature before cooling it to the target fermentation temperature?

 

[Covrich]

Yeah, fingers crossed! I have to say, really they should advertise it differently and suggest a starter at least for lagers if that's better. so... How much longer should/can I give this one to get going before I need to repitch? So I know when to order backup :P

And... if it does get going... how long shall I keep it at room temperature before cooling it to the target fermentation temperature?

What temperature did you pitch at? and what temp is it now?

this is from Wyeast site

17. I’m brewing a lager, do I need to cool my wort to fermentation temperature before adding the yeast?

There are different views on this topic. The individual brewer ultimately has to weigh the pros and cons. If a brewer is to pitch the lager yeast at fermentation temperature (55°F and below) then the pitch rate needs to be increased and a slower start to fermentation should be expected. The other option is to pitch the yeast into wort (60 to 70°F) and maintain temperature for 24 hours or until signs of active fermentation are evident and then cool to desired fermentation temperature.

 

[W0nderW0man]

What temperature did you pitch at? and what temp is it now?

this is from Wyeast site

17. I’m brewing a lager, do I need to cool my wort to fermentation temperature before adding the yeast?

There are different views on this topic. The individual brewer ultimately has to weigh the pros and cons. If a brewer is to pitch the lager yeast at fermentation temperature (55°F and below) then the pitch rate needs to be increased and a slower start to fermentation should be expected. The other option is to pitch the yeast into wort (60 to 70°F) and maintain temperature for 24 hours or until signs of active fermentation are evident and then cool to desired fermentation temperature.

I pitched at 18 degrees then left it alone for the night and in the morning it had cooled down to 16. Then I brought it in and it's now around 20.

I just read, that if you pitch lager at room temp and leave it there until it is active, it will chuck out a lot of diacetyl. People in that thread all agreed to pitch at lager temperature and just be patient. I guess had my yeast activated and if it was fresh(er) then I would have had it at lager temperatures, but under my circumstances now I am not sure what to do.

 

[Hoddy]

I think I cover this scenario exactly in one of my videos #badbeer plus in other ones to do with yeast age and smack packs.

Old wyeast (and other makers) liquid yeasts are a pain. But worth it. Anything that's 6 months old in a liquid yeast is a waste of space.
Sadly something similar happened to me with a lager and I think even repitching wont save it as the yeast will be stressed by now and will taste bad. The killer is it can take up to 8 weeks from now to find that out. Thankfully the home brew shop refunded me for a dead pack. If it don't smell right don't use it.

Sorry but I think your better off cutting your loses and moving onto a pseudo lager. IMHO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BeerCat]

Well I hope it gets going for you, if not you're going to need to get some other yeast in there pretty quick or you'll lose the wort too.
The beer I made from my smack pack - a french Biere de garde - turned out really well but I must admit I was astonished by the price of the yeast - �£6.85!!!! Like always I re-used the trub for a second brew but that still means it cost �£3.50 just for the yeast. So whether or not I'd bother with it again is doubtful.

I hear you they are not cheap but you could save a bit of the starter and step it up. I am still using the same yeasts i bought in January. My attempts at Lager were not very successful. After i watched Hoddy's youtube video i realised i wasn't alone.
Best of luck WonderWoman. :)

 

[Covrich]

I think I cover this scenario exactly in one of my videos #badbeer plus in other ones to do with yeast age and smack packs.

Old wyeast (and other makers) liquid yeasts are a pain. But worth it. Anything that's 6 months old in a liquid yeast is a waste of space.
Sadly something similar happened to me with a lager and I think even repitching wont save it as the yeast will be stressed by now and will taste bad. The killer is it can take up to 8 weeks from now to find that out. Thankfully the home brew shop refunded me for a dead pack. If it don't smell right don't use it.

Sorry but I think your better off cutting your loses and moving onto a pseudo lager. IMHO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you not make a starter for the lager though? TYpically you'd need to picth a lot more for a lager and bare in mind that smack pack has crossed the atlantic.. Even for an Ale yeast smack packs are probably not enough for an ideal pitch with transportation..

Up to everyones individual thoughts but I would never leave it to chance.

 

[W0nderW0man]

Quick update: Good news! Came home from the pub last night and the beer had a mini-krausen kind of thing so I moved it straight out into the water bath, where it's at 12 degrees now :)

 

[Covrich]

Quick update: Good news! Came home from the pub last night and the beer had a mini-krausen kind of thing so I moved it straight out into the water bath, where it's at 12 degrees now :)

Great news, fingers crossed

 

[Hoddy]

That's great news. Although still be weary. The yeast could have mutated and been stressed if it was under pitched that much because of its age.

If after fermentation and diacetyl rest it still smells and tastes wrong. It most likely is.
If your in any doubt I can send you a bottle of some of mine I let condition for 8 weeks to find out its un-drinkable.

May the fermentation be with you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[W0nderW0man]

So I thought I'd write a little update on the brew after 18 days of fermentation. So as I told you, I had no option than to ferment the beer with the FV in a big waterbath with iced bottles. Of course, as timing would have it, the first week or so, the weather was great - to great for beer with warm temperatures and lots of sunshine. I wrapped a camping/gym mat with tin foil and wrapped it around the water bath and around the lid, which was only losely laying on the whole thing to keep dirt and rain water off. I also shielded it with a parasol. I found that I really struggled to keep the temps down at 13 degrees max, although the whole isolation helped to keep it one or two degrees down. If I had to guess, then I would say that the fermentation temp was 15 degrees on average maybe 16 at times. The ice bottles melted quite quickly too and I changed them every morning and evening.

The OG was 1.059 and today I took the first reading, not having touched the beer at all in 18 days. It reads now 1.010 which is much more than I could hope for. The recipe suggested an OG of 1.051 and FG of 1.013 so I guess I really am done fermenting. Should I now do 48hours of diacetyl rest? does it have to be 22 degrees for that or would 18/20 be okay?

I also had my first taste test today, wondering if there would be any fruity notes. The beer is strong (it has a lot of alc and I will ad a litre or two of water to dilute it), it does taste very nice (I was going for a Bitburger clone, sort of) and there are no fruity notes. You can barely taste the yeast but there is still a slight hint of it, which should go away now in the coming weeks. If there was anything then I would say it seems slightly "sour" but I don't think that would be anything to do with the yeast, would it? It will also be better once diluted a bit.

So... what are your thoughts? Oh and how long do I have to bottle condition a pilsener?

 

[Covrich]

Alcoholic flavours will mellow too, Lager fermentation takes longer you are judging it far too early because it may only be right at the end of fermentation..

You going to lager this?

 

[MyQul]

If your going to lager/cold condition, one day for every OG point is a good rule of thumb

 

[W0nderW0man]

To be honest, I am not sure yet how I would lager it. I understand it should be conditioned pretty much at the temp it fermented, so ideally like 13 degrees, for 3 weeks, is that correct? And then lagered at cooler temps or am I wrong?

Oh I know the taste will mellow out and settle. but I guess if the yeast had produced estery flavours to to the higher fermentation temperature, that those would be present already.

 

[MyQul]

To be honest, I am not sure yet how I would lager it. I understand it should be conditioned pretty much at the temp it fermented, so ideally like 13 degrees, for 3 weeks, is that correct? And then lagered at cooler temps or am I wrong?

Not qite. Lagering is just conditioning at cold temps. So after youve fermented it. Let it raise to about 18C for 2-3 days for the diacytl rest then it's time to lager/cold condition. You lager at about 1C-2C. If you havent got a lagering/brew fridge perhaps you could mini keg your beer, put 1 mini keg in your domestic fridge and drink the rest as a clean ale like I do.
You may have noticed I'm trialling some 'Lagering with a picnic cool bag'' experiments at the mo. So if successful, that might be another route.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63339

 

[W0nderW0man]

Not qite. Lagering is just conditioning at cold temps. So after youve fermented it. Let it raise to about 18C for 2-3 days for the diacytl rest then it's time to lager/cold condition. You lager at about 1C-2C. If you havent got a lagering/brew fridge perhaps you could mini keg your beer, put 1 mini keg in your domestic fridge and drink the rest as a clean ale like I do.
You may have noticed I'm trialling some 'Lagering with a picnic cool bag'' experiments at the mo. So if successful, that might be another route.

http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63339

Okay! The problem with the keg is you have to drink it all in one go, pretty much.

Actually, I had a look at those picnic bags but couldn't find one quite big enough. Have you got a link to the one you used?