Solar panels.

[dennisking]

Anyone had them fitted? Been reading about them and the general consensus is you get your outlay back after 6-7 years. The roof at the back of my house is a fairly big area and ideal so thinking about it. However with my cautious hat on I want to here from people that have tried it first.

 

[One eye]

Hi
we have a 16 panel system which is 4kw the maximum allowed on a private dwelling

have had them 2 years this February and had a meter check and the panels have produce 7,884kw in those 2 years,

we did not buy them, we what was called rented the roof out to a company who payed £12,500 and installed them, free to us, after 25years they walk away from the panels so maybe only last that long and the Goverment stop paying the feed in tarif also

so we get our electric free first when the panels are producing and the excess goes to the grid.

When the surveyor came to check out the roof I asked if there was any drawbacks on buying the panels ourselve, he answered that the converter will need chngeing twice in the 25 year life span of the panels,
( may have been a ploy so I didn't buy )

so maybe worth asking the company if that is the case,

if only the electric could be stored economically, I thouht about a storage heater on a sunny winters day,

it is nice in the mornings when the sun is shinning and put the kettle on for a cuppa and costs us nothing, fridge and freezer and hoover running for free , tend to do the washing later in the day when panels are producing 2 to 3 kw

they do produce even if no sun, but not a lot

 

[bobsbeer]

We had a company who cold called offering to install for free. We said no, but wondered about it. I was a bit concerned about the extra load on the roof, but I guess they factor that in.

 

[nobyipa]

all for them
but in a rented flat at mo
if you can rig up a good brew system you can install them easy your self for far less money
even if it took a few days of work to do it
in the summer if you have the right kit you will be in credit or producing more than you use
get both water and electric solar panels
:thumb:

 

[graysalchemy]

I heard on Radio 4 about problem related to rent a roof schemes, namely that you have a lease for 25 yrs which if you sell your house then the buyer would have to continue with those potentially negatively affecting the value. They may also be in breech of you mortgage agreement and because fitters are unregulated then potentially you could have problems with the installation and causing strutural problems.

The warning came from RICS see here.

 

[One eye]

I heard on Radio 4 about problem related to rent a roof schemes, namely that you have a lease for 25 yrs which if you sell your house then the buyer would have to continue with those potentially negatively affecting the value. They may also be in breech of you mortgage agreement and because fitters are unregulated then potentially you could have problems with the installation and causing strutural problems.

The warning came from RICS see here.

thanks for that,

I think Dennis is talking about buying his panels
though,

I have no Morgage, house insurer said no problems, Estate Agent is saying Solar Panels are a plus factor, when selling a property, and I get free Brewing, lol,

who wouldn't buy a property when you can get free electricity thrown in.

I do think it is unfair that only properties with a south facing roof reap the most benefits of solar.

some schools are installing solar to make money so thet can buy Tablet (PC's ) for their pupils,

 

[Jeltz]

Bought ones are a plus when marketing a house but I've had a lot of adverse reaction from buyers to leased schemes.

 

[PaulCa]

have had them 2 years this February and had a meter check and the panels have produce 7,884kw in those 2 years,

we did not buy them, we what was called rented the roof out to a company who payed £12,500 and installed them, free to us, after 25years they walk away from the panels so maybe

At 17p per kwh (thats one tarif for here, and most likely NOT what the grid pay you), you have made £670/year with them, which sounds great, but would take, 18 years to pay back the 12,500. After 25 years there would be only a £4250 profit and that's not counting how much electricity you burn off that the company don't get so in net energy to the lease company is almost certainly a loss. I also sincerely doubt they are maintenance free over that time.

So, in short the companies are scamming the tax payer as the main profit they make is through the government subsidies.

Consider that wind turbines that can go on your roof/garden only costs about £400 per KW + installation, 240V converter and regulator. Planning permission might be a different story.

 

[Hawks]

I'd definitely be buying some if we had a suitable South facing roof :thumb:

I'm not sure when the feed in tariff was changing again, as it keeps reducing. But either way you should get your investment back and then start saving money after a few years ( 6-8 was also the sort of time I last read IIRC )

I do agree with the comments on here that I would buy and not get the lease deals ( although I am not talking from experience )

 

[PaulCa]

I'm not sure when the feed in tariff was changing again, as it keeps reducing. But either way you should get your investment back and then start saving money after a few years ( 6-8 was also the sort of time I last read IIRC )

I do agree with the comments on here that I would buy and not get the lease deals ( although I am not talking from experience )

Apparently the lead in tariffs are only if you use a certified installer and certified equipment, so if you go for buying up front you will almost certainly be scammed so the company still make their profit and take any grants, leaving you with making very little. Remember this government do not help the little people, they help the big business.

Needless to say I'm not convinced, any of the numbers I have run do not work out as a significant benefit in terms of return on investment. Even the big companies claim 6-8% return. So if you invest £12,500, you can expect to make only £750-£1000 in 25 years.

 

[marksa222]

I used to work for a company that sold them (going back about 5 years now) at the time they were giving a more competitive rate, and the salesmen were quoting 10 years as the approximate pay back time. I don't know a great deal about them as I worked on a different side that sold uPVC products (ask away about those haha) but I did notice that none of the reps had solar panels...

 

[AndyO]

I had solar panels installed last year just after all the nice dry sunny weather. I have a small roof that is SSW facing so the maximum that could be fitted was 10 x 260W panels, i.e. a 2.6kW system. The roof is quite shallow so the sun needs to be reasonably high for maximum benefit. I have seen it producing 2.75kW under ideal conditions. The hotter the weather the less efficient the panels are.
The system stays in sync right down to 35W at the end of the day or on really dark rainy days.
It cost 5k to install by a neighbour who has his own company installing these systems. Why did I have it installed, not sure, it seemed a good idea at the time, returns from any money saved in banks etc. is pretty poor at this time.
Taken from British Gas web site on -3 November 2013
Feed in Tariff for the Solar power is £0.149/kWh plus 50% at £0.0464/kWh

They assume you will use half of what you produce.

My reading on 22 Feb was only 236kWh for the whole of the winter quarter, very wet winter.
Today 11 March it has clocked up an additional 110kWh over a couple of weeks. It is surprising what a bit of sunshine will do.

 

[Wezzel]

Is it just me that hates them. Especially in the rural location near to where I work. Lovely little cottages ruined with bloody great blue panels all over the roof.

Sorry but I would rather pay more for my electricity or try to use it more efficiently :nono:

 

[naturals]

Finally a thread on my area of expertise! I've worked in green construction for around 10-12 years as a QS and I've specialised in solar for the last 3-4. I have my own company too so if you want some impartial advice please just drop me a line. We don't do hard sales tactics.

To respond to a few points already raised:

we have a 16 panel system which is 4kw the maximum allowed on a private dwelling

You can actually install as many as you like, though 4kWp tends to be popular as it's a good return on investment at that point. My company are commissioning a 120kWp domestic system this week (though that's quite a special house!)

I was a bit concerned about the extra load on the roof, but I guess they factor that in.

Always worth double checking the installer pays a structural engineer to sign it off. Plenty don't - it costs around £100 so we insist on it on every project.

I do think it is unfair that only properties with a south facing roof reap the most benefits of solar.

Depending on your roof you can still make very good money on non-South facing roofs. A recent NW facing roof we installed will earn 13.63% - that's got to be ten times what most bank accounts earn these days and unlike most savings accounts that money is tax free.

At 17p per kwh (thats one tarif for here, and most likely NOT what the grid pay you), you have made £670/year with them, which sounds great, but would take, 18 years to pay back the 12,500

If you installed today you'd get 14.9p Feed-in-Tariff, 4.64p for electricity you sell to the grid and you'll saving around 12p for every unit you no longer buy in. We assume 50/50 usage / sale to grid - based on that you get 14.9 + (0.5 x 4.64) + (0.5 x 12) = 23.22p per unit. In the case above that gives an income of £915 per annum (all money being tax free). Also there's no way a 4kWp will cost anywhere near £12,500 today - the current cost is nearer £6,000. That gives a return of around 15% and a payback of 6.6 years based upon the generation figures One eye mentioned.

I'm not sure when the feed in tariff was changing again, as it keeps reducing.

It's reviewed every quarter - it's due to change at the end of March though the drops are minimal now - on domestic (sub 4 kWp) it goes from 14.9p to 14.38p.

Even the big companies claim 6-8% return. So if you invest £12,500, you can expect to make only £750-£1000 in 25 years.

6-8% sounds quite low, plus that's the rate PER YEAR. So you'll be paid £750-1,000 every year for twenty years (plus the figure goes up in line with inflation).

 

[Jeltz]

Is it just me that hates them. Especially in the rural location near to where I work. Lovely little cottages ruined with bloody great blue panels all over the roof.

Sorry but I would rather pay more for my electricity or try to use it more efficiently :nono:

Coal is too dirty and stations are being closed to meet emissions targets, old nuclear stations are closing due to the end of their lifespan and there aren't enough new ones planned to meet the demands so renewable sources are needed. As it stands we also need to find ways to reduce consumption or in 20 years time electricity might be rationed or the preserve of the wealthy.

There are solar farms going up around here, I prefer that to rooftops but I have no real objections to either.

 

[One eye]

I maybe wrong, but when we had ours installed the Goverment was paying 23p per KW,

so the company paid £12,500

the Goverment are paying £1,000 per year Feed in Tariff

we get free electric when panels are produceing

over the 25 years the company doubles their outlay as the 23p was fixed for 25 years

naturals,
is it correct that the converter needs changing twice in the 25 years, as I was lead to beleive ?

and I did notice panels do not produce when covered in snow.

 

[Dave1970]

I've just had some fitted a week ago...as others said the main appeal is the returns.

12 panels giving 3.924 kw on a south facing roof - on Sunday it got up to 3.6 - not bad for this time of year
It cost £7800 - quite expensive for panels these days, I had some money from an inheritance so we got Sunpower panels which are more expensive but give more energy per panel, have a much longer warranty and deteriorate much more slowly than others - in the long term they should end up being a better investment. We also got a more expensive inverter which should have a good lifespan.

They're predicted give a return of £964 in the first year so I get that as a 12.4% return which is pretty good compared to banks at the moment. Too soon after a week to say how likely this prediction is looking.

As already said the energy you export to the grid isn't actually measured, they assume 50% of what you generate. So if you're around during the day and can run your washing machine/drier/dishwasher or of course time your brew so the boil happens during the middle of the day you'll use more of your own electricity and still get the same from the feed in tariff - Our dishwasher and Washing Machine both have delay functions so I've started putting them to come on around midday

 

[naturals]

naturals,
is it correct that the converter needs changing twice in the 25 years, as I was lead to beleive ?

and I did notice panels do not produce when covered in snow.

The inverters you get these days are pretty good - depending on the make they will often come with a seven to 10 year guarantee as standard. On that basis I'd say if your inverter broke twice in 25 years you'd be very unlucky. My general gut feel is that a decent inverter should be lasting 12-15 years minimum. With a 20 year lifespan of the Feed-in-Tariff (I presume you had yours installed when it was still 25 years) I'd say there's probably around a 50/50 chance of needing a replacement.

If one broke today you'd be looking at around £600-800 for a replacement. In 12-15 years I suspect that cost would have dropped dramatically.

 

[naturals]

I've just had some fitted a week ago...as others said the main appeal is the returns.

12 panels giving 3.924 kw on a south facing roof - on Sunday it got up to 3.6 - not bad for this time of year
It cost £7800 - quite expensive for panels these days, I had some money from an inheritance so we got Sunpower panels which are more expensive but give more energy per panel, have a much longer warranty and deteriorate much more slowly than others - in the long term they should end up being a better investment. We also got a more expensive inverter which should have a good lifespan.

They're predicted give a return of £964 in the first year so I get that as a 12.4% return which is pretty good compared to banks at the moment. Too soon after a week to say how likely this prediction is looking.

As already said the energy you export to the grid isn't actually measured, they assume 50% of what you generate. So if you're around during the day and can run your washing machine/drier/dishwasher or of course time your brew so the boil happens during the middle of the day you'll use more of your own electricity and still get the same from the feed in tariff - Our dishwasher and Washing Machine both have delay functions so I've started putting them to come on around midday

If you got Sunpower modules for that price that's a very good deal indeed! Those things are crazy expensive! The material price we pay is roughly double what some other manufacturers charge. Out of interest what was the premium inverter you had fitted with them?

 

[Robbo]

Within the next 3 weeks I'm going to have a company called A Shade Greener install solar panels onto my South facing roof free of charge. This company was on BBC news and if they say it is free then it should be free.

I'll let you know what happens.