So, what’s the point of lager?

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I’m now approaching the lagering stage.

The articles I’ve read appear to treat lagering as a stage before carbonation but I’m worried about oxidisation. I think my preference would be to lager the beer in a carbed keg.

If you go straight to bottling after fermenting do you just go straight into lagering or do you warm the bottles to carb up the beer before you lager it? Warming the bottles at this stage sounds counter-productive but lagers are new to me so I’m out of my depth here. Can you tell

 

[foxbat]

I’m now approaching the lagering stage.

The articles I’ve read appear to treat lagering as a stage before carbonation but I’m worried about oxidisation. I think my preference would be to lager the beer in a carbed keg.

If you go straight to bottling after fermenting do you just go straight into lagering or do you warm the bottles to carb up the beer before you lager it? Warming the bottles at this stage sounds counter-productive but lagers are new to me so I’m out of my depth here. Can you tell

After 3 weeks I go straight from the fermenter to a keg for purging, force-carbonation and lagering. Oxygen is your A-number-one enemy at this point. I bottle the 'left overs' with priming sugar after filling a keg and side-by-side the bottles never taste as bright and fresh as the keg.

 

[fury_tea]

I’m now approaching the lagering stage.

The articles I’ve read appear to treat lagering as a stage before carbonation but I’m worried about oxidisation. I think my preference would be to lager the beer in a carbed keg.

If you go straight to bottling after fermenting do you just go straight into lagering or do you warm the bottles to carb up the beer before you lager it? Warming the bottles at this stage sounds counter-productive but lagers are new to me so I’m out of my depth here. Can you tell

You absolutely can do it the way you are saying, but it's not reeeally 'lagering' per se. Lagering requires a cool temperatured bulk aging. I've never had an issue with oxidation with my lagers, I usually don't touch them for a good few weeks but if you are not careful it could be an issue I suppose.

My method is to leave it in primary and add geletin, cold crash then lager for a good 3 weeks to a month (or more), which in my experience will improve it vastly. Then I keg then age some more.

Of course there are multiple ways to cook an egg, so go with what suits you and it will probably turn out great.

To answer the carbing question, if you can, warm them up to 20c for 2 weeks, then open one to check it is carbed (or use the plastic bottle squeeze technique), then drop down to your 'lagering' temperature afterwards

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

This is interesting...

My method is to leave it in primary and add geletin, cold crash then lager for a good 3 weeks to a month (or more), which in my experience will improve it vastly. Then I keg then age some more.

...so you leave uncarbonated beer to lager for a month and I assume you have no problem with oxidisation.

Do you cold crash still in primary?

Do you lager in primary, transfer to secondary, or otherwise, and how do you prevent oxidisation.

Sorry for the inquisition!

 

[MickDundee]

This is interesting...



...so you leave uncarbonated beer to lager for a month and I assume you have no problem with oxidisation.

Do you cold crash still in primary?

Do you lager in primary, transfer to secondary, or otherwise, and how do you prevent oxidisation.

Sorry for the inquisition!

The only time I’ve ever down a lager
, I lagered in primary (using a conical fermenter so there’s less contact with the yeast), then bottled, carbonated and lagered again before conditioning as normal. I have the same plan for this one.

 

[fury_tea]

This is interesting...



...so you leave uncarbonated beer to lager for a month and I assume you have no problem with oxidisation.

Do you cold crash still in primary?

Do you lager in primary, transfer to secondary, or otherwise, and how do you prevent oxidisation.

Sorry for the inquisition!

My methods are not necessarily the best or most historically accurate, but they work for me...
I geletin and cold crash in primary and lager (4-6 weeks) in primary. I have a clear 23L carboy that I brew lagers in, basically I wait for the beer to drop completely clear, then I leave it another couple of weeks after that, then I transfer to keg (this would be your bottling stage), carbonate then leave for a few more weeks (as long as I can hold off drinking it).

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I've made a few lager like brews and I've fermented in the primary transferred to the secondary and basically cold crashed for 2 weeks in the garage. I then bring into the house, leave it a day and then bottle and carb for 2 weeks. Turned out OK. I now have a fridge so will put the secondary into this. Does this method seem OK.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

As I understand things - and I have no idea what I’m talking about when it comes to lager so “misunderstand” could well be more accurate - lagering is where the flavours properly develop and any heating of the beer between fermentation and the end of the lagering process will change (for the worse) that flavour profile. This would suggest that warming the bottles to carbonate the beer before lagering will result in something that could have been better.

On the other hand storing beer without having carbonated it risks exposure to oxygen and potential disaster (for the beer at least).

The above is my rationale for cold carbing (force carbing) in a keg and lagering for a couple of months by which time the flavours are locked in and the beer can then be bottled, warmed to carbonate, and then stored, preferably at least 5 degrees below serving temperate.

I think this is my plan but would love to hear if I’ve got this wrong before I go and do it.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Today I will start the lagering phase.

Been keeping an eye on the temperature for this brew because I can heat but not chill in my fermenting cupboard, not a problem for my ales. I also don’t have a spare fridge and, although it crossed my mind, my wife might want a quiet word if I raise the fridge temp to 11C!

So I’ve been a bit of a passenger as far as temperature control is concerned and I’m hoping everything will be okay:

First 7 days = 11C

All good so far but then the weather started to warm up:

Next 3 days = 13C
Next 2 days = 15C

The weather was then expected to get hot over the weekend. At this point I got worried and moved the FV to a cool spot in my garage where it’s spent the last 3 days at about 9C. I should probably have kegged then but I was more focused on the beer not getting too hot.

Today I’m going to keg, inject CO2, and leave it in the fridge for a couple of months before bottling.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I may have kegged a little prematurely, the gravity is 1010 from 1050.

I don’t suppose it matters too much as I’m not bottling just yet but my final abv might be up to 1% more?

It looks quite nice for my first ever lager although doesn’t taste particularly good at this stage. Mind you, neither do my ales straight out of the FV!

 

[fury_tea]

I may have kegged a little prematurely, the gravity is 1010 from 1050.

I don’t suppose it matters too much as I’m not bottling just yet but my final abv might be up to 1% more?

It looks quite nice for my first ever lager although doesn’t taste particularly good at this stage. Mind you, neither do my ales straight out of the FV!

View attachment 24441

What were you expecting your fg to be? 1.010 sounds about right to me.

Did you do a diacetyl rest at around 20c for a few days before kegging?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

What were you expecting your fg to be? 1.010 sounds about right to me.

Did you do a diacetyl rest at around 20c for a few days before kegging?

Good question! I’ve never brewed a lager before so I was using my ale knowledge and thinking it might go to 1006 or maybe even 1004.

I used MJ M84 which has a fermentation range of 10-15C. It had 7 days at 11C, 3 days at 13C, and another 2 days at 15C so hopefully that qualifies as it’s diacetyl rest. I’ll find out later!

 

[Zephyr259]

Good question! I’ve never brewed a lager before so I was using my ale knowledge and thinking it might go to 1006 or maybe even 1004.

I used MJ M84 which has a fermentation range of 10-15C. It had 7 days at 11C, 3 days at 13C, and another 2 days at 15C so hopefully that qualifies as it’s diacetyl rest. I’ll find out later!

1.006 - 1.004 from 1.050 is 88 - 92% attenuation, what yeast are you using that you get that with your ales? Mine are normally in the 70s.

Your schedule isn't that far off my amber lager, it got a few days at 12c then it was almost done so ramped 1c every 12 hrs to 16c, it went quiet the other day so going to confirm fg on Wednesday then chill it down before bottling. Couldn't detect any diacetyl yesterday, even after microwaving my sample for 10s.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I know, you’re right, but I often get better than expected when using MJ US West Coast. Maybe I need a new hydrometer!

Tell me more about microwaving a sample - never heard of anyone doing that before.

 

[Zephyr259]

I know, you’re right, but I often get better than expected when using MJ US West Coast. Maybe I need a new hydrometer!

Tell me more about microwaving a sample - never heard of anyone doing that before.

Fair enough, I've heard that MJ yeasts are aggressive.

Warming a sample will apparently make it obvious if you have diacetyl as it'll be a lot more volatile at the higher temp. I didn't smell anything other than warm beer. Didn't even taste that bad.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Fair enough, I've heard that MJ yeasts are aggressive.

Warming a sample will apparently make it obvious if you have diacetyl as it'll be a lot more volatile at the higher temp. I didn't smell anything other than warm beer. Didn't even taste that bad.

Thanks for letting me off the hook with my **** maths

I’ll remember the microwave trick and give that a try next time.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Now been lagering at 3C for 4 days.

...is it ready yet?

 

[fury_tea]

Now been lagering at 3C for 4 days.

...is it ready yet?

Are you me?

 

[MickDundee]

Now been lagering at 3C for 4 days.

...is it ready yet?

Mine is at 2C and has been lagering for 2 days. I did 0C on my last (first) lager and ended up with ice floating inside and a massive iceberg at the back of my fridge.

How long are you lagering for? I’m doing 4 weeks this time then bottling so it’ll have been in the fridge for 7 and a half weeks.

I’ve not even opened the fermenting fridge yet, but will be nabbing the heater out of it today for my other brew fridge.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Tell me more about microwaving a sample - never heard of anyone doing that before.

It's a variation on a standard diacetyl force test - see here Diacetyl Force Test