SMASH

[mitch]

Jumping in..
Attempting a first test batch citra smash today or tomorrow in my newly aquired brewdevil. Half batch to test the machine and my inept capabilities

 

[Griff097]

Jumping in..
Attempting a first test batch citra smash today or tomorrow in my newly aquired brewdevil. Half batch to test the machine and my inept capabilities

Be interested to hear how it turns out, in the early days the hardest thing is the waiting

 

[mitch]

Be interested to hear how it turns out, in the early days the hardest thing is the waiting

Im not a big drinker so all my brews have been 1 gallon on the hob so far. However i got a machine which had only been used about 3 times. Ive constructed a kegorator so ive upped the game. Bottling even just 15 20 bottles is draining. Im actually quite scared using the machine. Had it 2 months! Need to re watch youtube a bit more. So hopefully today or tomorrow a first 10L or so batch.

 

[Griff097]

Im not a big drinker so all my brews have been 1 gallon on the hob so far. However i got a machine which had only been used about 3 times. Ive constructed a kegorator so ive upped the game. Bottling even just 15 20 bottles is draining. Im actually quite scared using the machine. Had it 2 months! Need to re watch youtube a bit more. So hopefully today or tomorrow a first 10L or so batch.

If you have already done stove top, a machine is going to be loads easier, if you use it in manual mode the only difference will be the recirculation during mashing I would have thought?

 

[labrewski]

Jumping in..
Attempting a first test batch citra smash today or tomorrow in my newly aquired brewdevil. Half batch to test the machine and my inept capabilities

What you going to use

 

[mitch]

If you have already done stove top, a machine is going to be loads easier, if you use it in manual mode the only difference will be the recirculation during mashing I would have thought?

What confuses me is do i start off with the total water amount or do i add after the mash? For the recirc. I want to aim for a half batch of around 10/11L so i can keg in my small keg and have enough for a bottle or 2.

 

[labrewski]

Im not a big drinker so all my brews have been 1 gallon on the hob so far. However i got a machine which had only been used about 3 times. Ive constructed a kegorator so ive upped the game. Bottling even just 15 20 bottles is draining. Im actually quite scared using the machine. Had it 2 months! Need to re watch youtube a bit more. So hopefully today or tomorrow a first 10L or so batch.

I was the same had machine a few weeks worried I didn't know what to do I just went for it and it worked out just start then u can't stop

 

[Griff097]

What confuses me is do i start off with the total water amount or do i add after the mash? For the recirc. I want to aim for a half batch of around 10/11L so i can keg in my small keg and have enough for a bottle or 2.

Assuming your machine has a removable malt pipe where the grain goes, a quick start guide would be :-

Measure dead space in Litres under false bottom, look at total weight of Malt and add 4 Litres per Kg to dead space measurement.
Prepare water additions if any, Campden etc
Warm water to strike temperature
Stir in the malt and start the recirculation for roughly 1hr
Lift malt pipe up and drain/add spare water on top of grain up to your desired boil volume, remember to allow more water to allow for boil off/stwam
Mine boils off about 4L per hour
Heat to boiling add hop additions as per recipie
Cool transfer to fermentation vessel and pitch yeast.

So it's virtually the same as what you have already been doing.

 

[mitch]

@Griff097 @labrewski Going to follow this recipie.
https://brewgr.com/recipe/66955/citra-smash-american-pale-ale-recipeBatch size 20. Boil 25L.
So. do i chuck in 25L into the machine from the start? it has a hop basket and recirculation.
Also id like a slightly weaker strength around 5% so do i just reduce down the fermentable? If so. How much? Thoughts please chaps.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Also id like a slightly weaker strength around 5% so do i just reduce down the fermentable? If so. How much? Thoughts please chaps.

As I said in my big post upthread "At low ABVs, the amount of alcohol scales with the OG and the amount of grain, so eg half the malt will give half the OG and half the alcohol (2.4kg malt -> 1.024 OG -> 2.4% ABV in this example)"

And the amount of alcohol produced from the grain depends on the attenuation of the yeast. That recipe assumes 86% attenuation from US-05 which is on the high side for that yeast, but if you use a lower-attenuating yeast, you'll get less alcohol - as I said upthread :

An attenuation of 74% (a very typical, middling attenuation as it happens) is the magic point where the numbers fall out and 1.048 OG translates to 4.8% ABV. Knowing that, you can scale in proportion depending on the attenuation, so Windsor with 70% attenuation will give you 4.8 * (70/74) = 4.5%, whereas US-05 with an attenuation of 80% will give you 4.8 * (80/74) = 5.2%.

 

[labrewski]

@Griff097 @labrewski Going to follow this recipie.
https://brewgr.com/recipe/66955/citra-smash-american-pale-ale-recipeBatch size 20. Boil 25L.
So. do i chuck in 25L into the machine from the start? it has a hop basket and recirculation.
Also id like a slightly weaker strength around 5% so do i just reduce down the fermentable? If so. How much? Thoughts please chaps.

25 l to start should be OK if not just top up at the end
Reduce amount of malt will mean less abv
Keep it simple just go for it

 

[Griff097]

@Griff097 @labrewski Going to follow this recipie.
https://brewgr.com/recipe/66955/citra-smash-american-pale-ale-recipeBatch size 20. Boil 25L.
So. do i chuck in 25L into the machine from the start? it has a hop basket and recirculation.
Also id like a slightly weaker strength around 5% so do i just reduce down the fermentable? If so. How much? Thoughts please chaps.

For a 20 L finished batch size I'm guessing you have 3/4 L dead space plus 4L per KG so 4 x 4 is 20, so24 L in to start then when sparging after the mash top back up to 24 plus the boil off so 28L
Think of it as being a process of 2 halves.
Start with about 24 L, mash
Top back up via sparging to 28L boil.

 

[mitch]

As I said in my big post upthread "At low ABVs, the amount of alcohol scales with the OG and the amount of grain, so eg half the malt will give half the OG and half the alcohol (2.4kg malt -> 1.024 OG -> 2.4% ABV in this example)"

And the amount of alcohol produced from the grain depends on the attenuation of the yeast. That recipe assumes 86% attenuation from US-05 which is on the high side for that yeast, but if you use a lower-attenuating yeast, you'll get less alcohol - as I said upthread :

An attenuation of 74% (a very typical, middling attenuation as it happens) is the magic point where the numbers fall out and 1.048 OG translates to 4.8% ABV. Knowing that, you can scale in proportion depending on the attenuation, so Windsor with 70% attenuation will give you 4.8 * (70/74) = 4.5%, whereas US-05 with an attenuation of 80% will give you 4.8 * (80/74) = 5.2%.

I have a US MJ m44 yeast. I follow your comment regarding the malt amounts and OG/alcohol.

 

[mitch]

Just prepping the water for tomorrow now. See if i can find some vids online.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have a US MJ m44 yeast. I follow your comment regarding the malt amounts and OG/alcohol.

There's two things to consider. That recipe assumes an efficiency of 80% and a yeast attenuation of 86%. Efficiencies of 80+% are fairly typical for all-in-one systems but until you have a few brews under your belt you won't know what you get. But assume that 80% for now.

However, 86% does seem high. MJ quote 77 - 85% for M44, I'd assume 80% which would imply the yeast change alone will take you down to 80/86*5.6=5.2%. So if you want to take it down further to 5% then you need 5/5.2 of the grain = 3.85kg.

 

[mitch]

There's two things to consider. That recipe assumes an efficiency of 80% and a yeast attenuation of 86%. Efficiencies of 80+% are fairly typical for all-in-one systems but until you have a few brews under your belt you won't know what you get. But assume that 80% for now.

However, 86% does seem high. MJ quote 77 - 85% for M44, I'd assume 80% which would imply the yeast change alone will take you down to 80/86*5.6=5.2%. So if you want to take it down further to 5% then you need 5/5.2 of the grain = 3.85kg.

Great input. Many thanks. Im still new to AG having managed a number on the hob but all in ones are foreign to me until tomorrow.

 

[Griff097]

First Smash, it's going to be Marriss Otter and Chinook, going to split in two batches, same yeast one with a dry hop.
I was going to use different yeasts but from what I have Lalbrew Nottingham and Malt Miller Classic English ale yeast, they are both Saccharomyces Cerevisiae so I am guessing basically the same thing or would the Nottingham be a different strain?

 

[mitch]

made it last night. messing around till midnight!

 

[An Ankoù]

First Smash, it's going to be Marriss Otter and Chinook, going to split in two batches, same yeast one with a dry hop.
I was going to use different yeasts but from what I have Lalbrew Nottingham and Malt Miller Classic English ale yeast, they are both Saccharomyces Cerevisiae so I am guessing basically the same thing or would the Nottingham be a different strain?

Saccharomyces Cerevisiae is a species of yeast of the genus Saccharaomyces of which Nottingham and of "Classic English Ale" are strains. Baking yeasts are a group of strains of Sacch. Cerev, and wine yeasts are another group of strains of the same species. Saccharomyces Bayanus is another species of which cider yeasts and Champagne yeasts are different strains. Bretonomyces is a different genus altogether. etc. etc.

 

[Griff097]

made it last night. messing around till midnight!

That's cool, the first one is always the hardest, write good notes so you can learn from them and adapt your process.
What in particular took longer than you expected?