Small batches

[marko65]

I'm about to brew my 2nd BIAB this week - I'm using a Greg Hughes recipe for a Belgian Blonde Ale and brewing 11.5L - I'm assuming that I half all of the quantities - I'm using Wyeast 1388 yeast - can I use half of a pack and if so how do I store the other half ?
Does anyone know what efficiency are assumed in all of the recipes in his book ? I put the recipe into Brewer's friend and with the efficiency of my first brew (60%) the ABV came up quite short. I'm using crushed grain for this one so hope to squeeze more out.
Cheers

 

[ACBEV]

I would expect the recipe assumes 75% efficiency, as for most recipes. As for your efficiency, I'm sure you can better 60% this time. I reckon 70-80% is where you'll end up.

I brew 22L batches and use 2 packs of Wyeast for brews above 1,050 or 1 pack, if beefing up with a yeast starter. So, I'd say use the whole pack on this brew.

 

[marko65]

Sure - will do - just trying to save a few quid with it being £7 a pack !

 

[MyQul]

If it was me Id put the yeast in a starter say 1L then split the starter in two and keep one half in the fridge

 

[Slid]

Sure - will do - just trying to save a few quid with it being £7 a pack !

Why not just pour the slurry from the first brew into 250ml Lemonade bottles (you can even drink the lemonade, I'm told ) and then re-use it. Easy to get another 3-4 brews from the same yeast, no risks, no issues and it brings the cost of the yeast down to under £2 per brew.

You need to sanitise everything the yeast touches, of course, but if you pour FV to jug, then carefully into your 250ml bottles, using a funnel, they keep in the fridge for months.

 

[Slid]

If it was me Id put the yeast in a starter say 1L then split the starter in two and keep one half in the fridge

This is a better approach in the sense that it reduces the risks associated with infection. Not used it myself, but I have only ever used dry yeasts.

 

[marko65]

Ok - now learning about yeast starters! - thanks for all your help

 

[marko65]

Just some last minute questions - I made a 1L yeast starter that has been on a stir plate for about 36 hours - I've stuck it in the fridge to chill so I can decant it - my reasoning being that pouring the full 1L starter in a 11.5L batch may be too much in terms of affecting flavour.
I still haven't decided whether to split the starter and use half in my next brew - would that leave me short in the brew I'm now doing (OG is 1070)?
Should I have split before chilling or can I split once I have decanted off the wort and if so do I just add some cooled boiled or distilled water to the yeast I'm saving for later?
Sorry for all the questions but was hoping to brew later today.

 

[Slid]

Since no-one has replied during the day, the most useful thing I can say is that whatever you did is unlikely to be detrimental, given that you have actually thought about this.

It is usually not thinking that goes very wrong. Over thinking tends to go only slightly wrong.:thumba:
.

 

[MyQul]

I regularly use a 1L starter in my 10L brews. This is undoubtedly overpitching but I'd rather over pitch than under (Although with my next beer I'm going to just pitch about 700ml starter)

If you want to split the starter its best to do it before chilling/ decanting the the spent wort as you need some liquid to get the yeast in suspention else it'll just just be sitting on the bottom of your flask, stuck there. You could add some boiled and cooled water as this liquid. But I prefer not to use boiled/cooled water for starters as beer is the best medium to keep the yeast under.

I'd be nervous of pitching a 500ml starter into (I take it 11.5L) 1.070 wort. It may ferment it out but I'd be much more comfortable pitching 1L

 

[marko65]

I've postponed my brew day until tomorrow - the starter is still in the fridge settling - I'll bring it up to room temp tomorrow and pitch the whole lot after decanting - thanks for your help - I may try and salvage the yeast after fermentation for my next brew

 

[marko65]

This is the yeast/trub I salvaged from the Belgian Blonde brew - it has sat in the fridge for about 7 weeks and I am looking to make a starter with it for a Belgian Tripel I am brewing. My starter will be 1L - I'm not sure of the best way to pitch it into the starter?

 

[Drunkula]

View attachment 17183
This is the yeast/trub I salvaged from the Belgian Blonde brew - it has sat in the fridge for about 7 weeks and I am looking to make a starter with it for a Belgian Tripel I am brewing. My starter will be 1L - I'm not sure of the best way to pitch it into the starter?

Call Ghostbusters.

 

[Zephyr259]

The beer on top of that looks very pretty, how was the Belgian Blonde?

I do the over building and splitting starters approach, and the twice I've re-used a yeast cake I used the whole lot as it was low abv batch to big abv batch (and the 2nd on got infected somehow).

Someone posted this advice recently on another thread (@MyQul?), a teaspoon of the thick slurry should be enough with clean yeast but they upped that to a couple of tablespoons due to the amount of trub in the sample. Ah, but you have it in a bottle... that's going to be a pain to get out, I use kilner jars for my yeast storage.

Can you make bigger starters than 1L? If it was me I'd shake that up and pour quarter to a half into a 1.5 - 2L starter then use half the starter and save the rest. Otherwise, maybe quarter in a litre and pitch the whole lot? I guess @Slid 's 250ml bottle method would suggest using half your bottle.

This calculator is good for working out starter sizes, but it doesn't deal with estimating cell count in a slurry which is tricky.

 

[Slid]

The beer on top of that looks very pretty, how was the Belgian Blonde?

I do the over building and splitting starters approach, and the twice I've re-used a yeast cake I used the whole lot as it was low abv batch to big abv batch (and the 2nd on got infected somehow).

Someone posted this advice recently on another thread (@MyQul?), a teaspoon of the thick slurry should be enough with clean yeast but they upped that to a couple of tablespoons due to the amount of trub in the sample. Ah, but you have it in a bottle... that's going to be a pain to get out, I use kilner jars for my yeast storage.

Can you make bigger starters than 1L? If it was me I'd shake that up and pour quarter to a half into a 1.5 - 2L starter then use half the starter and save the rest. Otherwise, maybe quarter in a litre and pitch the whole lot? I guess @Slid 's 250ml bottle method would suggest using half your bottle.

This calculator is good for working out starter sizes, but it doesn't deal with estimating cell count in a slurry which is tricky.

The picture shows a 500ml bottle with about 50% yeast. I usually pitch the whole 250ml bottle after warming it up for 4hrs during brewing. Never had any issues with this, even after more than 7 weeks. I do get very high attenuation using US05, which suggests over-pitching, if anything.

As to what to do with it, I'm not sure. I am very cavalier, in that I think nothing of getting 7 brews from one yeast sachet, but have never re-used trub from a "secondary" yeast batch, as I suspect that a more clinical approach to hygiene may be indicated. The yeast is safe enough under its nice looking beer, but if you only use part of it, how is the volume in the bottle to be made up? Not air, surely?

 

[marko65]

Thanks for your help - Just to be clear - what part of the lower solids is the yeast - is it the narrow band on top - there also appears to be a band slightly lower down but not sure whether this is yeast also. My thoughts are to shake the bottle, let the trub settle and then decant the beer/yeast into a second sanitised jar. Once this has settled out I could decant some of the beer off and pitch the rest into my starter - my conical flask is 2L so I could probably do a bigger starter and then save half of it for next brew. Zephyr - the Belgian Blonde is a great beer - has only been bottled for 7 weeks or so but nearly finished although I know it deserves longer in the bottle!

 

[Zephyr259]

This has always been my confusion, the implication is as you say, the 2 white bands are the yeast but surely there is a significant amount mixed into the rest.

I manage 1.5L starters with my 2L flask, have to be careful if the yeast is an enthusiastic one, had a few overflows.

 

[Zephyr259]

This has always been my confusion, the implication is as you say, the 2 white bands are the yeast but surely there is a significant amount mixed into the rest.

I manage 1.5L starters with my 2L flask, have to be careful if the yeast is an enthusiastic one, had a few overflows.

 

[Slid]

I watched some yeast washing videos some time ago. The suggestion is that the bit you want is in the "middle". Below the beer on the top and above the "trub" that contains a much lower proportion of viable cells.

On that basis, you could pour off the liquid and pitch about half an inch off the top into the next brew, then use the rest for a sort of "yeast washing". I re-iterate again, that yeast washing is not something I do anymore and that pitching the whole lot has not given me any problems.