Sir Vince Cable - "beginning to think Brexit may never happen".

[Chippy_Tea]

As the article says "the likely next Lib Dem leader" and carrying on where Farren finished

Sir Vince Cable - the likely next Lib Dem leader - says he is "beginning to think Brexit may never happen".

He said "enormous" divisions in the Labour and the Tory parties and a "deteriorating" economy would make people think again.

"People will realise that we didn't vote to be poorer, and I think the whole question of continued membership will once again arise," he said.

He was speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr show.

His comments were dismissed by leading Eurosceptic Conservative MP Owen Paterson, who said Sir Vince was just "chucking buckets of water around" and ignoring the "huge vote" in favour of leaving in the referendum and at the general election, where the two main parties backed Brexit.

"Vince Cable's party went down in votes, as did the other little parties who want to stay in the European Union," he told the BBC's Sunday Politics.

He added: "I am afraid Vince is behind history. We are going to leave. We are on target."

Sir Vince conceded that the Lib Dem policy on a second referendum on the terms of a Brexit deal "didn't really cut through in the general election".

But he said it could offer voters "a way out when it becomes clear the Brexit is potentially disastrous".

Corbyn 'bubble'

The former business secretary looks set to be crowned Lib Dem leader. He is the only candidate following the resignation of Tim Farron.

Sir Vince told the BBC he wants to work with Labour and Tory MPs to block what he regards as Theresa May's "hard Brexit" policy.

"A lot of people are keeping their heads down," he said, and "we'll see what happens" when MPs returned from their summer break.

But he added: "I'm beginning to think that Brexit may never happen.

"The problems are so enormous, the divisions within the two major parties are so enormous. I can see a scenario in which this doesn't happen."

MPs are set to vote on the Repeal Bill, a key piece of Brexit legislation, in the autumn.

Sir Vince has said he wants to form a cross-party coalition including like-minded Tory and Labour MPs to oppose Britain's exit from the single market - the official policy of both the Conservative and Labour parties.

'Mein Kampf' claim

He said Labour MPs who disagreed with their leader's position were welcome in his party, and predicted Labour's divisions on the issue would get worse.

"Jeremy Corbyn had a good election, for sure, but there is an element of a 'bubble' about it," he told Andrew Marr.

"He managed to attract large numbers of people on the basis that he was leading opposition to Brexit.

"Actually he is very pro-Brexit, and hard Brexit, and I think when that becomes apparent, the divisions in the Labour Party will become more real and the opportunity for us to move into that space will be substantial."

Sir Vince has come under fire for saying Theresa May's comment, in her 2016 Conservative Party conference speech, that "if you believe you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere," was like something out of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.

Quizzed by Andrew Marr on this, Sir Vince said he had got the wrong dictator: "I got my literary reference wrong - I think it was Stalin who talked about 'rootless cosmopolitans'."

Sir Vince, who won back his Twickenham seat at the general election, is not expected to face a challenger for the Lib Dem leadership but he said would still produce a manifesto. He suggested he would back income tax rises to pay for improvements to health and social care.

BBC

 

[johnnyboy1965]

JMHO....I dont give a flying flip-flop what any politician says, They are all liars.
I could go on...

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I agree JB but some appear to lie a lot more than others :wink:

My point in posting is it still looks like the Lib Dems think the leave voters were clueless and they (the lib dems) will not be happy until we have a second referendum where all the plebs will come to their senses and vote remain.

.

 

[Sadfield]

Don't think he's saying that. Most of it is in reference to other politicians, the majority of which were pro-remain before the referendum. Given the deteriorating economy, I'll think a lot of them will now start covering their arses, and start doing a balancing act of not being responsible for Brexit whilst still looking to represent their electorate. There's are a fair few on the side of Brexit that don't think it'll happen, too.

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Don't think he's saying that.

Well thats the way i am reading it -

People will realise that we didn't vote to be poorer

Its still all doom and gloom as far as they are concerned the same as it was before the vote!

.

 

[Sadfield]

What are the positives currently?

Government and opposition, isn't that the way things should be?


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[Dutto]

............ will come to their senses and vote remain.

.

Er ... some of us never lost our senses in the first place and voted "Remain"! :whistle: :whistle:

The situation is complex but the question was ridiculously simplified; and to make such a far-reaching decision on the back of a 2% majority makes a travesty of governance.

I think that leaving the EU is the biggest backward step that the UK could have made at this time.

I sincerely hope to live long enough to be proved wrong! :thumb:

 

[Godsdog]

Er ... some of us never lost our senses in the first place and voted "Remain"! :whistle: :whistle:

The situation is complex but the question was ridiculously simplified; and to make such a far-reaching decision on the back of a 2% majority makes a travesty of governance.

I think that leaving the EU is the biggest backward step that the UK could have made at this time.

I sincerely hope to live long enough to be proved wrong! :thumb:

where I think its the most forward looking step we have taken in my lifetime.you cannot voyage into a new world without leaving sight of your own shores.bring it on:thumb:

 

[Sadfield]

Titanic and the Mary Rose come to mind.

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[Dutto]

where I think its the most forward looking step we have taken in my lifetime.you cannot voyage into a new world without leaving sight of your own shores.bring it on:thumb:

The problem is, I remember exactly why I and many others voted to go into the EU in the first place.

 

[Godsdog]

The problem is, I remember exactly why I and many others voted to go into the EU in the first place.

Q1 how old are you
Q2 what exactly do you remember why you voted to go into the EU? 75 or 2016?to clarify

 

[Gunge]

Of course it will bloody well happen. What do they think we're going to do if it doesn't - just say well well that's alright then? No wonder the lib-dems are political nobodies.

 

[BeerCat]

What on earth was the fool knighted for?

 

[Dutto]

Q1 how old are you
Q2 what exactly do you remember why you voted to go into the EU? 75 or 2016?to clarify

I'm 74 years old and as a sailor by the 1970's I had travelled a lot of the world and seen just how nations could be governed for the good of the general public and not for a few privileged people.

By 1972 the UK unemployment rate had soared to over a million (it got worse before it got better) and the economy (especially our heavy industries) were collapsing at an amazing rate.

In four words "It was absolute chaos!"

Ted Heath (a much maligned Tory PM) took us into the EU on the basis that the UK needed the EU and Harold Wilson (a Labour PM) organised the 1972 referendum to have a mandate to stay in the EU. (The "anti EU" brigade were already wailing at the thought of benefitting people other than themselves.)

When the 1972 Referendum arrived, I and many others in the UK looked around us, saw countries such as Germany and France prospering and voted "Remain".

The fact that UK's politicians have been, at best, lukewarm towards the EU has resulted in us staying on the sidelines when it came to setting policies and deciding things within the EU ...

... and that NEVER made the EU a bad thing, it just reinforced the stupidity of successive UK governments and the anti-EU stance being put forward by the UK media.

My favourite example of negative media reporting of the EU was the newspaper headline that said something like ...

"Brussels Bureaucrats Interfere With Traditional British Banger"​

When you read the accompanying article the EU were insisting that UK manufacturers put MEAT in their sausages; instead of the 90% mixture of rusk, fat and "recovered meat slurry" that the UK regulations allowed.

How dare they?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_Kingdom#Deindustrialization

PS

So I take it that you are a Catholic ?
"This is quite interesting, because you seem to contradict yourself, so many times."
​

The above was Posted in a Thread that is currently closed so I may as well answer here:

I was raised a CofE Protestant and was an Altar Boy until I was 15 years old and started working in my summer holidays.

My elder foster-brother was a Roman Catholic from birth, my sister converted to the RC faith when I was 17 years old and I converted to the RC faith myself in my 40's; but "lapsed" by my early 50's.

I try to be a good Christian but fail miserably a lot of the time.

I have read quite a few books on the teachings of other faiths and I find that, in a similar manner to the Christian faith, many religious teachers use their religious beliefs for their own ends. However, I have tried to steer my own course and my own religious beliefs have never stopped me from having friends from other religions.

Maybe someone who has fixed beliefs finds my tolerance of other people and religions a "contradiction". It isn't!

 

[terrym]

ITed Heath (a much maligned Tory PM) took us into the EU on the basis that the UK needed the EU and Harold Wilson (a Labour PM) organised the 1972 referendum to have a mandate to stay in the EU.

The EU didn't exist in the 1970s.
What did exist was the EEC or Common Market which we joined (and would have joined earlier had De Gaulle not blocked us) and which was essentially a trade organisation, and apparently a more attractive proposition to the UK than EFTA which we were in at the time.
The EU, as it is now known, has grown into far more than a trade organisation. Had it remained trade only undoubtedly there would not have been a referendum, the term Brexit would not have been invented, and we would not be discussing it.

 

[Godsdog]

I'm 74 years old and as a sailor by the 1970's I had travelled a lot of the world and seen just how nations could be governed for the good of the general public and not for a few privileged people.

By 1972 the UK unemployment rate had soared to over a million (it got worse before it got better) and the economy (especially our heavy industries) were collapsing at an amazing rate.

In four words "It was absolute chaos!"

Ted Heath (a much maligned Tory PM) took us into the EU on the basis that the UK needed the EU and Harold Wilson (a Labour PM) organised the 1972 referendum to have a mandate to stay in the EU. (The "anti EU" brigade were already wailing at the thought of benefitting people other than themselves.)

When the 1972 Referendum arrived, I and many others in the UK looked around us, saw countries such as Germany and France prospering and voted "Remain".

The fact that UK's politicians have been, at best, lukewarm towards the EU has resulted in us staying on the sidelines when it came to setting policies and deciding things within the EU ...

... and that NEVER made the EU a bad thing, it just reinforced the stupidity of successive UK governments and the anti-EU stance being put forward by the UK media.

My favourite example of negative media reporting of the EU was the newspaper headline that said something like ...

"Brussels Bureaucrats Interfere With Traditional British Banger"​

When you read the accompanying article the EU were insisting that UK manufacturers put MEAT in their sausages; instead of the 90% mixture of rusk, fat and "recovered meat slurry" that the UK regulations allowed.

How dare they?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_Kingdom#Deindustrialization

PS

So I take it that you are a Catholic ?
"This is quite interesting, because you seem to contradict yourself, so many times."​

The above was Posted in a Thread that is currently closed so I may as well answer here:

I was raised a CofE Protestant and was an Altar Boy until I was 15 years old and started working in my summer holidays.

My elder foster-brother was a Roman Catholic from birth, my sister converted to the RC faith when I was 17 years old and I converted to the RC faith myself in my 40's; but "lapsed" by my early 50's.

I try to be a good Christian but fail miserably a lot of the time.

I have read quite a few books on the teachings of other faiths and I find that, in a similar manner to the Christian faith, many religious teachers use their religious beliefs for their own ends. However, I have tried to steer my own course and my own religious beliefs have never stopped me from having friends from other religions.

Maybe someone who has fixed beliefs finds my tolerance of other people and religions a "contradiction". It isn't!

Firstly at the risk of sounding a little pedantic the common market referendum was in the june of 1975,your right on the union issues that bought about the general strike in 72 I think it was,we were at that time the sick man of Europe and that's a given from me an ex union convenor.but times have changed and legislation was bought in by Maggie thatcher rightlty to curb the powers of power crazy union bosses like scargill,bottom line is its not 1972 anymore and Terrym hit the nail on its head by stating that if it was left as just a trading block like it was when we joined brexit would never have been an issue but now we are a member of the federal state of Europe something I nor millions of us voted for in 75.in stead the dictorial EU put before each leader of the member countrys a load of treatys for them to sign and give away loads of rights which in my opinion was a clear case of treason as they had no mandate from the people to do so,every treaty should have been signed off by the people.our democracy goes back to the magna carta,that was good enough back in 1215 and still stands good today:thumb:

 

[Sadfield]

The resistance to a referendum on the outcome of Brexit negotiations is interesting. I really don't see why it would such an concern to leavers? Surely, you would have nothing to fear, being in the majority already and we'd all know exactly what excellent deal we are voting on.

I'm sure some will want to argue this with the fact that we have voted and the result should stand. However, the UK voted to be in Europe originally, should that not stand? As the leave vote strongly correlated with age, I'm curious as to how many people who voted to join, have since voted to leave. Why do they have the right to change their mind over Europe, but others don't?

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[Chippy_Tea]

The situation is complex but the question was ridiculously simplified; and to make such a far-reaching decision on the back of a 2% majority makes a travesty of governance.

You say 2% as if it is a trivial amount its still the majority would you have been happy for the reaminers to say "well that's not enough so we wont take any notice of what THE PEOPLE have decided"

I didn't vote because i couldn't make my mind up who was telling the biggest lies i now know and would have voted out.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The resistance to a referendum on the outcome of Brexit negotiations is interesting. I really don't see why it would such an concern to leavers?

I to do not see the problem with it we get a good deal or we leave.

.

 

[Dutto]

I to do not see the problem with it we get a good deal or we leave.

.

Errr... we have already left; and all we are doing now is negotiating the conditions under which we are going to leave.
(People who are divorced will understand this process; and if you are male it may be the first time in the relationship that you get well and truly screwed!!) :whistle:

IF we get a good deal then fine but if we don't it's like being "almost a virgin" and "nearly pregnant"! i.e. there is no middle ground.

The UK populace voted to leave, Article 50 was activated so now it's less than two years before the powers that be arrange everything.

I would be a lot happier if I believed for one moment that the "Leave" brigade actually had a plan, but as it is, "Believe in the Lord, but keep your powder dry!" is my best advice! :thumb: