Scrapping HS2 Leeds extension 'undermines' levelling up

[Chippy_Tea]

Trouble is who do you vote for? Kier Starmer? I'm not sure I would trust him, I voted Green at the last election but is that a wasted vote?

This is the problem we have Labour, conservative and the others, the whole system is bent you either vote Labour, conservative or waste your vote as non of the others will ever get in unless its a coalition and look how the last one of those worked out.

 

[TonyT]

You call them turkeys what have labour given us that would persuade a Tory voter to switch answer = nothing.

Well for starters, labour haven’t been in power for 11 years so that’s irrelevant because they’ve all changed. And it’s not about what they give us, none of them ‘give’ us anything. It’s about the way that we’re governed. And at the moment we’re being governed very poorly by a bunch of self entitled, self serving individuals who are mostly out of touch with ordinary people who are being royally shafted but apparently are quite happy with that. Hence turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

[TonyT]

This is the problem we have Labour, conservative and the others, the whole system is bent you either vote Labour, conservative or waste your vote as non of the others will ever get in unless its a coalition and look how the last one of those worked out.

Well at least I agree with you on that!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Well for starters, labour haven’t been in power for 11 years so that’s irrelevant because they’ve all changed. And it’s not about what they give us, none of them ‘give’ us anything. It’s about the way that we’re governed. And at the moment we’re being governed very poorly by a bunch of self entitled, self serving individuals who are mostly out of touch with ordinary people who are being royally shafted but apparently are quite happy with that. Hence turkeys voting for Christmas.

If the Tories are making such a pigs ear of it and labour are doing so well why have the polls looked like this over the last 12 months -

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[TonyT]

If the Tories are making such a pigs ear of it and labour are doing so well why have the polls looked like this over the last 12 months -

Who said that Labour were doing well?, certainly not me. All I’m saying is that the Tories are a bunch of corrupt, self serving plutocrats.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Who said that Labour were doing well?, certainly not me. All I’m saying is that the Tories are a bunch of corrupt, self serving plutocrats.

You are call tory voters "turkeys voting for Christmas" then go on to say "labour haven’t been in power for 11 years so that’s irrelevant because they’ve all changed" the problem for labour is they haven't changed the leaders may have but the in fighting has not and neither has the publics view of them, Starmer should be giving Boris a severe kicking but as the poll shows his popularity this year has plummeted, why are the Tories still ahead in the polls if they have done such a bad job?

 

[TonyT]

You are call tory voters "turkeys voting for Christmas" then go on to say "labour haven’t been in power for 11 years so that’s irrelevant because they’ve all changed" the problem for labour is they haven't changed the leaders may have but the in fighting has not and neither has the publics view of them, Starmer should be giving Boris a severe kicking but as the poll shows his popularity this year has plummeted, why are the Tories still ahead in the polls if they have done such a bad job?

To be honest, I agree with you entirely on that, and I don’t know the answer. I can’t understand why they're so popular. As far as labour changing is concerned, I was referring to their personnel. Just for the record, I’m not a labour supporter either, I just really DON’T like the tories, mainly for their dishonesty.

 

[Hoppopotamus]

Who would you choose?

Err - there lies the problem!
It's like being a turkey given the choice of a traditional Xmas in the UK or Thanksgiving in the US .

And has anyone told the pig in the M&S advert they also do a nice ham for Xmas ?

 

[Irishwizard]

You are call tory voters "turkeys voting for Christmas" then go on to say "labour haven’t been in power for 11 years so that’s irrelevant because they’ve all changed" the problem for labour is they haven't changed the leaders may have but the in fighting has not and neither has the publics view of them, Starmer should be giving Boris a severe kicking but as the poll shows his popularity this year has plummeted, why are the Tories still ahead in the polls if they have done such a bad job?

Ive had a drink , which is not a good thing and swore never to get involved in DEBATE on a forum.... BUT
History shows ( dont ask for figures please) but every party that gets elected, spend the whole time struggling to stay in power, whilst their popularity slowly slumps. You would think that after many years they would realise this and try and correct the anomaly. Obviously they are all self serving complete nut jobs!

 

[Irishwizard]

The sad fact about the whole HS2 Project is: it should be going to Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen too.
No point in discussing electric cars etc if there is no efficient and attractive public transport alternatives for EVERYONE.

Interesting ideas that will never happen. When you get to Scotland most of the track is single line with passing places. Double tracking is completely impractical. (financially) Anyway, where there are double tracks, this only allows trains of a certain length to pass. The Tesco train is a good example of this. If you see the Highland lines in person you will see this, whether they go to Inverness and Aberdeen or Oban and Mallaig. Its really worth going up there and see the situation, even though you may meet the odd biitter Scot who wants more. Never will happen.

 

[trueblue]

Who would you choose?

I will admit starmer has been disappointing so far but I would like to thing he would at least be honest and work for the greater good of the majority and not just the selected few.

 

[Nicks90]

You would like to think so, but I doubt it.
He was self serving as head of the CPS at the time of jimi Saville, and at the start of the child grooming scandals in t'north.
Second jobs? Oh yeah he earnt 25k as a lawyer whilst an mp and even earnt 10grand providing advice to the govt of Gibraltar (a tax haven for offshore banks and companies) on how to increase their profile to attract more offshore investment. Otherwise known as tax dodging by moving company profits to low tax countries. Sound familiar?
Yeah, that's kier. In it for the common man. Sure.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I will admit starmer has been disappointing so far but I would like to thing he would at least be honest and work for the greater good of the majority and not just the selected few.

The problem is we labour voters can hope that KS is the right man for the job (i don't and have said so) but its not going to persuade tory voters to switch its obvious from his popularity poll he is going backwards.

 

[Irishwizard]

You would like to think so, but I doubt it.
He was self serving as head of the CPS at the time of jimi Saville, and at the start of the child grooming scandals in t'north.
Second jobs? Oh yeah he earnt 25k as a lawyer whilst an mp and even earnt 10grand providing advice to the govt of Gibraltar (a tax haven for offshore banks and companies) on how to increase their profile to attract more offshore investment. Otherwise known as tax dodging by moving company profits to low tax countries. Sound familiar?
Yeah, that's kier. In it for the common man. Sure.

He is no different from the rest - they are all side hustlers - but to be fair it goes back hundreds of years where the Knights and land owners controlled the Serfs - I urge you to vote Reform

 

[johncrobinson]

I dont think that politcs serve the need of the people

If you think one of many of Farages latest plans are indeed the answer,OMG.

These people offer nothing.

 

[Loiner-62]

You would like to think so, but I doubt it.
He was self serving as head of the CPS at the time of jimi Saville, and at the start of the child grooming scandals in t'north.
Second jobs? Oh yeah he earnt 25k as a lawyer whilst an mp and even earnt 10grand providing advice to the govt of Gibraltar (a tax haven for offshore banks and companies) on how to increase their profile to attract more offshore investment. Otherwise known as tax dodging by moving company profits to low tax countries. Sound familiar?
Yeah, that's kier. In it for the common man. Sure.

Not wanting to start an argument but this 'Starmer let Jimmy Saville off' crap keeps being trotted out despite it being fiction. Yes he was head of the CPS, but he was not in charge of the case. Number of sources have corrected this bs spread by the right wing media. Link below - not a news feed and arguably one mans interpretation - sums up a more balanced view on his CPS role. You can find many more telling the same basic story

No, Keir Starmer did not help Jimmy Savile escape justice (scottish-liberal.blogspot.com)

As for earning £25k as a lawyer whilst being an MP - not a great look in the current climate - but BloJo has already had a free holiday worth more than this this year. Compared to the cash for access and influence currently plaguing the Conservatives, it's pretty small beer.

On the original thread about HS2, no real strong feelings about it - updating the railways seems like a good idea, but a very costly project for little return, and eyewatering rail fares continue. Always felt it was a way of giving people with high London salaries a cheap house further north. However, against the back drop of a supposed Northern Power House agenda it looks bad. Yet again, London gets it's improved transport links, the North gets a hinted promise of more investment in new infrastructure - best guess we get a new lane painted on the grassy verge of the M62 to go along with the loss of hard shoulders and some new Cornish Pasty shops at Leeds city station to replace the one David Cameron thought was there 10 years ago

Remember hearing Quentin Wilson (former Top Gear presenter) on radio 4 a good couple of years back when asked about the push for more people to switch onto public transport from cars, his response amounted to something along the lines of it's OK if you live in London, and maybe Manchester, Birmingham and possibly Glasgow, but most of the rest of the country did not have the kind of (relatively) low cost integrated public transport needed to make it a viable option. Get the feeling that even if more money for improving northern transport, it will be a tiny fraction of what was going to be spent and will be largely swallowed up on consultancy fees and repairing existing facilities. The promised cash will be planned over the next 20 years and trotted out as new money every time they appear on TV (Just like the extra 20,000 police officers to replace the 20,000 reduction caused by austerity cuts......etc)

 

[johncrobinson]

I remember living in London during the 1980s I could get anywhere for the grand sum of about £5 a week.!!!
My travel card covered all three zones and was valid day and night on both the busses and tube,

Nowadays it costs me more than that for ONE 3mile trip to Dingwall on the train.

 

[Dearnley]

Had they started HS2 from the North and drove the line toward the South they would have looked as though they were more serious about improving rail connections in the North - when they start in the South and then political will peters out, so that the promised developments don't happen for the North then it looks like London just wanted to improve connectivity to outlying areas for its benefit. Would much sooner see East/West communications improved it's madness that I could travel from Cumbria to London quicker than I could get to Leeds.

 

[Andrew Booth]

I always say discussing politics with Beer, Wine etc Should be banned I witnessed many inebriated people kick off over a difference in political outlook.