Scottish Water / Campden Tablets

[stesworldofbeer]

Im new to brewing and ive done as much research as i can so far, with reading books, watching youtube, and googling. Ive bought all the equipment and ingredients i need for one gallon batches (4.5L), and i was planning on brewing in the next few weeks. Then i read about water...

I didn't realise how complicated it was. Im already confused with the forum post on water, about chlorine, ph levels, etc. And im terrible at mathematics and calculations!

Does anyone know if i can use Glasgow tap water without campden tablets in one gallon batches?

And if i do need to use campden tablets, how much do i use for batches this size?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

one Campden tablet per five gallons. It will get rid of the chlorine.
Tricky to split a campden tablet so dissolve in say 25ml of water then 5ml ( one level teaspoon ) of liquid per gallon.
Approx.

 

[Begbie]

I only started using Campden tabs in my water about 4 brews ago. My palate isn't refined enough to notice any difference in the brews though, but I do it anyway. My water comes from muirdyke reservoir and is quite soft, as is a lot of the water supplied to the Glasgow area.

As I make 10L batches these days, I just put about a 1/4 of a tablet into a bucket with 15L of water in it and use that to take water from. Packets of Campden tabs always have little pieces of broken tablet in them, so I just guess what looks roughly a 1/4. This is based on Strange-Steves post on water treatment which says that 1/2 tablet will treat 35L, hence why I use 15L water to treat - makes it easier to calculate.

 

[stesworldofbeer]

So would i just use quarter of a quarter campden tablet per 5 litres?

 

[Begbie]

Technically, it should only be 1/14th of a tablet . I don't know if there's anything wrong with over dosing with Campden tabs.

 

[stesworldofbeer]

Technically, it should only be 1/14th of a tablet . I don't know if there's anything wrong with over dosing with Campden tabs.

Thanks

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Don't think a minor overdose is a problem pre mash and boil. But would be if you were putting the Sod Met in the keg.

 

[Gingerbrews]

I brew in Glasgow and have never added anything to the tap water. Maybe I'm just a Philistine but
I've achieved perfectly acceptable results since 1980s

 

[MickDundee]

Over here in the east we don’t have an issue with chlorinated water.

 

[Show Me a Stein]

I've made several brews over the last year using Glasgow water (Milngavie apparently) and on the whole, apart from my own mistakes, they've tasted pretty great! I did nothing with the water at all on most occasions. Looking at the water profile, it's practically distilled (even more so than Pilsen which is world famous for its water profile). What I've read, and what my experience seems to confirm, is that if your water tastes nice, it should be good to use.

The water in Glasgow is very pure with low levels of everything (although apparently chlorides can vary depending on time, but they seem low, and boiling removes this anyway). This doesn't mean it will be suited for every style though. I suppose

From memory:

Magnesium is good for yeast health, but I've never had a problem with yeast despite this. If you have out of date or stressed yeast, maybe it won't be ideal?
Carbonate levels when low increase acidity, while the opposite situation (low acidity) damages mash efficiency. I've read the advantage of high acidity/low ph is that it reduces tannins (which is desirable!). Carbonate levels are reduced by boiling anyway (and I generally pre-boil).
Sodium is basically undesirable I think, and there's basically none in any Glasgow water.
Chloride is also generally undesirable. Pre-boiling reduces this too.
Sulfates are important for certain styles, and if you're trying to clone certain beers (e.g. Burton). It brings out hoppiness, which I am not overly interested in, but sounds like it could be a problem if you're trying to brew NEIPAs or something. I am not, so can't comment.
Calcium is where the controversy might lie. I have experimented with raising the level from 5ppm (very low) to 100ppm+ (as is apparently desirable) on a couple of occasions, but I thought the taste just wasn't as good... But I'm glad I tested, as now I know. Mileage may vary. I use noble hops, which apparently go well with lower calcium water also.

The sulfate to chloride ratio is apparently important. It's roughly balanced in Glasgow's water.

The great thing about the mineral content of the local water is that if you're not happy, it's much easier to add minerals than it is to remove. I'm no expert on water or brewing, but I did look into it for a while and I was initially concerned about the low calcium and magnesium levels, but now I'm not. I actually prefer it how it is naturally!

 

[Hanglow]

Another glasgow brewer here, we are spoiled by good water here, much of England for example has horrible hard water with high alkalinity :)

You can buy campden powder (the homebrew shop in Partick sells it or Wilkos in Clydebank might too)and use a jewellers/drug dealers scale to measure the correct amount. I use about 0.9g per batch of beer (0.03g per litre of liquor)which is used to dechlorinate and as an antioxidant in the mash. If you use that amount or more you need to make sure all the sulfites have oxidised before pitching yeast or you can end up with an eggy smelling brew.

You can ignore magnesium salts and simply use varying amounts of calcium sulphate(gypsum) and calcium chloride and some sodium bicarbonate for any darker brews.

All beers benefit from some added calcium in the mash and ale in particular tends to benefit from having a fair amount of calcium which helps flocculation - less important for lagers. You can then choose to add more in the boil if you want, for "flavour" - more perception of flavour, mouthfeel etc than actual flavour. Bitters for example benefit from having elevated levels of chloride and sulphate and so will usually have added salts. Whereas if we were making a Czech Světlý Ležák I would just add a bit of calcium chloride into the mash and that's it in terms of salts - but I'd probably still need to add a bit of lactic acid to reduce the pH a bit more, so it's worth getting some of that for pale beers.

Confused still? There's lots of good posts here on water treatment and this is handy as well
https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water_treatment.htm

edit: didn't realise this was an old post

 

[johncrobinson]

Old post it may be but still very relavant Hanglow.

Water is indeed the source of life,Just a shame i cant drink it.

Never mind as a highlander i am well aquanted with "The Water Of Life".

 

[Theoriginalrich]

Does anyone know much about Edinburgh water or where I can find some info?
I’ve mainly brewed kits with a few stove top 5 gallon AG with Ashbeck and would rather use tap water with a campden tablet with my new AG journey.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Does anyone know much about Edinburgh water or where I can find some info?

All water companies are required to publish stats on water quality. Ofwat has a tool to tell you which company serves your postcode :
https://www.water.org.uk/advice-for-customers/find-your-supplier/
Taking EH1 2NG as the Castle's postcode, that takes you to Scottish Water :
https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/Your-Home/Your-Water/Water-Quality/Water-Quality
Using EH1 2NG again, it comes back with the data for Glencorse C, this is the 12-month report :
https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/-/m...7/Water-202008-Glencorse-C-Last-12-Months.pdf
So 5.5mg/ml (=ppm) of chloride, 10.78 of sulphate, pH 8.09.

Inconveniently they do the hardness report separately, for 2019 it's 11.05ppm calcium, 33.83 hardness as ppm CaCO3.

Now it's important to recognise that these are averages based on samples taken at particular times, for the water at that end. The water coming out of your tap can pick up all sorts of things from the pipe en route, and may vary quite a bit due to drought, switching supplies etc. But it gives you a good general idea - it's lovely soft water with low levels of minerals, so it's a great base for brewing.

 

[Theoriginalrich]

Thanks NB. After looking at my postcode on the site, https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/-/m...107/Water-202008-Rosebery-A-Last-12-Months.pd
to my novice eyes everything looks ok.
P.H. 7.92
Chloride 11.57
Sulphate 2.51
I’m in a soft water area going by the info you found. I couldn’t find a more recent table.
Calcium 9.7ppm
Hardness as ppm CaC03 30.53ppm

so I think a Campden tablet in the water and I’m good to go. I’d be great full to hear if I’m wrong though.

 

[Hanglow]

Yeah you will be fine with that. If you ever want to go all grain then it's a great base to build with too.

 

[Theoriginalrich]

That’s the plan. My Brewzilla came on Thursday. I have mainly done kits so far, this is the first time I’ve been interested in water profiles as I’ve exclusively used Ashbeck before.
Exciting times.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

so I think a Campden tablet in the water and I’m good to go. I’d be great full to hear if I’m wrong though.

Might not even need a Campden, but aside from chlorine, some Campden is no bad thing for oxygen-scavenging purposes.

But yep, with that kind of water you certainly didn't need to buy Ashbeck!

As a general rule of thumb, if you don't have problems with scale in your kettle, then your tapwater is probably fine for brewing - but obviously the fact that water companies make analyses so readily available allows you to be a bit more sophisticated than that with relatively little effort (albeit with the caveat that they are only one-off samples, at the supply end).

 

[Theoriginalrich]

Might not even need a Campden, but aside from chlorine, some Campden is no bad thing for oxygen-scavenging purposes.

But yep, with that kind of water you certainly didn't need to buy Ashbeck!

As a general rule of thumb, if you don't have problems with scale in your kettle, then your tapwater is probably fine for brewing - but obviously the fact that water companies make analyses so readily available allows you to be a bit more sophisticated than that with relatively little effort (albeit with the caveat that they are only one-off samples, at the supply end).

Thanks for your help NB. It’s great hear I’ve got good base water (for the time being) maybe when I get more experience I can tinker.
Cheers.