Scottish independence -

[Agentgonzo]

Boris Johnson has done more for the cause of an independent Scotland than Nicola Sturgeon ever will.

 

[Lesinge]

You've used fairly baseless speculation.

"
"ALEX Salmond and other SNP ministers were wrong when they said oil would be a “bonus” not a basis for the Scottish economy after independence, a senior party figure has conceded.

Andrew Wilson, who is leading an SNP review updating the case for independence, admitted North Sea income was “baked into” spending plans, rather than treated as a windfall.

The mantra “oil is a bonus” was a key part of the Yes campaign in 2014, and was used to rebut criticism that an independent Scotland would be overly reliant on a volatile industry."

"Collapsing oil revenues meant Scotland ran up a £13.3billion deficit in what the SNP intended to be the first year of independence."

I can only base my speculation on the facts over the last few years. If you have other information that says that Scotland will not base its economy on a volatile commodity then I will be happy to consider them. I have no skin in this game.

 

[Lesinge]

No no, the definitely, totally analogous comparison with the Iraq war* has convinced me and should convince you too.

*no, me neither

I used the Iraq war because it was an example of a politician creating a story to convince the electorate based on flimsy evidence. Brexit, Iraq war and the proposed sunny uplands of Scottish independence are all examples - things that have similar failed outcomes don't have to be exactly the same - the De Lorian car and Ratners both failed but you wouldn't drive a cheap gold ring.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I used the Iraq war because it was an example of a politician creating a story to convince the electorate based on flimsy evidence. Brexit, Iraq war and the proposed sunny uplands of Scottish independence are all examples - things that have similar failed outcomes don't have to be exactly the same - the De Lorian car and Ratners both failed but you wouldn't drive a cheap gold ring.

Incredible

 

[Lesinge]

Incredible

Not really incredible its logical - three events made by politicians over promising. You are focussing on Iraq as a war and Scotland Independence as something completely different. They are in what the processes are/were but that is not my point. People were arguing that Blair knew what he was doing based on facts and I argued that he did not (removing a secular leader that was holding together a sectarian riven country) and it would not work out. Brexit was the same - saying things to get the votes but based on figures plucked out of the air. Stop looking at the differences and see the similarities is my point.

 

[Druncan]

Can't wait. Most folk up here seem to be strongly in favour of leaving and attempting some form of repair with EEC.
I think the same. Heartily sick of the UK political muppets and him in particular. The feeling for NS seems to be she's made mistakes, but overall done a canny job and COVID was her best battlefield win.

Contrast with remembering that this is what he(BFNJ) thinks of you all;

“If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless, and perhaps claiming to suffer from low self-esteem brought on by unemployment.”

British women have been “socially gestapoed into the workplace”, which led to them raising “unloved and undisciplined children” more likely to commit crime.

However;

“Voting Tory will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3.”

No apologies,,,, and soon no job Time for new Scotland.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Not really incredible its logical - three events made by politicians over promising. You are focussing on Iraq as a war and Scotland Independence as something completely different. They are in what the processes are/were but that is not my point. People were arguing that Blair knew what he was doing based on facts and I argued that he did not (removing a secular leader that was holding together a sectarian riven country) and it would not work out. Brexit was the same - saying things to get the votes but based on figures plucked out of the air. Stop looking at the differences and see the similarities is my point.

There are, quite literally, no similarities, but if you can give me one solid reason why Scotland (in a world with many, many similar sized/populated countries) is predisposed to some measure of "failure", despite a disproportionately high amount of resources for a country of its size then perhaps il reconsider.

Given that any perceived future "failure" would have be demonstrated to be worse than the clearly demonstrable ongoing embarrassment that is the UK on global terms, I wouldnt want to be hanging by the balls waiting........

 

[kanesaw]

It's i

Can't wait. Most folk up here seem to be strongly in favour of leaving and attempting some form of repair with EEC.
I think the same. Heartily sick of the UK political muppets and him in particular. The feeling for NS seems to be she's made mistakes, but overall done a canny job and COVID was her best battlefield win.

Contrast with remembering that this is what he(BFNJ) thinks of you all;

“If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless, and perhaps claiming to suffer from low self-esteem brought on by unemployment.”

British women have been “socially gestapoed into the workplace”, which led to them raising “unloved and undisciplined children” more likely to commit crime.

However;

“Voting Tory will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3.”

No apologies,,,, and soon no job Time for new Scotland.

That is what doesn't make sense, stick it to your biggest trading partner so you can cozy up to your second biggest?

The EU has not made it easy on the UK since we left, one can easily see how Scotland would be on the losing side of a divorce yet again should we split from the UK.

 

[kanesaw]

Agreed.

Who is doing that?

What else is there?

 

[Brewnaldo]

What else is there?

What else is there in Scotland except oil?

I will treat that with the contempt it deserves other than to point out the obvious.... Even a small amount of oil is not a burden. And moreso in the current climate.

If you don't know what else there is except oil, I suggest a course of educating yourself, in all seriousness.

 

[kanesaw]

What else is there in Scotland except oil?

I will treat that with the contempt it deserves other than to point out the obvious.... Even a small amount of oil is not a burden. And moreso in the current climate.

If you don't know what else there is except oil, I suggest a course of educating yourself, in all seriousness.

I live and work in the Financial Services sector in Edinburgh, I'm well aware of what Scotland offers in a union with the UK.

But please do educate me on what else there will be in a post union Scotland? Financial services won't want to be too trusting of the Scottish Pound, business will be much easier operating under the same laws and regulations that they currently operate in south of the wall. We're still some way off being able to mass export electricity.

We need not forget that Sturgeon said herself that an independent Scotland could not have afforded the support offered to businesses and employees throughout the pandemic, fingers crossed Scotland never comes across something that hits the economy as hard as Covid (lets just ignore how the treasury believes Brexit will be twice as bad to the economy as Covid).

Then we need to understand how Scotland will bridge the gap between what we generate and what we spend? We receive over £1,500 more per person in government spending compared to the UK average but provide £300 less than the UK average in tax takes? How many of us can swallow a £1,800 tax increase just to call ourselves independent?

Do you think the UK will allow us to walk away with a nice packed lunch and a thank you card?

 

[Lesinge]

There are, quite literally, no similarities, but if you can give me one solid reason why Scotland (in a world with many, many similar sized/populated countries) is predisposed to some measure of "failure", despite a disproportionately high amount of resources for a country of its size then perhaps il reconsider.

Given that any perceived future "failure" would have be demonstrated to be worse than the clearly demonstrable ongoing embarrassment that is the UK on global terms, I wouldnt want to be hanging by the balls waiting........

An economy based on oil in a world devesting itself of oil is like putting all your cash on the success of a new world colony, coupled with the fact that you will need your own currency or be tied to someone else's economic success or failure by using the pound or Euro. Greece has found out that having to go out every night to expensive restaurants because their rich neighbours (Germany) do so and they have to go, is a strain on a smaller economy.

My point was, once again, by people saying that they can see the happy outcomes of a gamble and me saying that I think it will probably end in tears. As I have said I have no skin in the game, I would vote for Scottish independence if only to stop the moaning. However, I would want a hard border put up to ensure that the rest of us have choices on who can come here until we both rejoin the EU (hopefully) in the future.

 

[Lesinge]

I live and work in the Financial Services sector in Edinburgh, I'm well aware of what Scotland offers in a union with the UK.

But please do educate me on what else there will be in a post union Scotland? Financial services won't want to be too trusting of the Scottish Pound, business will be much easier operating under the same laws and regulations that they currently operate in south of the wall. We're still some way off being able to mass export electricity.

We need not forget that Sturgeon said herself that an independent Scotland could not have afforded the support offered to businesses and employees throughout the pandemic, fingers crossed Scotland never comes across something that hits the economy as hard as Covid (lets just ignore how the treasury believes Brexit will be twice as bad to the economy as Covid).

Then we need to understand how Scotland will bridge the gap between what we generate and what we spend? We receive over £1,500 more per person in government spending compared to the UK average but provide £300 less than the UK average in tax takes? How many of us can swallow a £1,800 tax increase just to call ourselves independent?

Do you think the UK will allow us to walk away with a nice packed lunch and a thank you card?

Also the two biggest banks in Scotland are no longer Scots owned so you will need to start afresh to manage your own currency.

 

[kanesaw]

Also the two biggest banks in Scotland are no longer Scots owned so you will need to start afresh to manage your own currency.

It’s more likely they’ll continue to manage the Scottish currency but take billions in profit south of the border