Sanitisation and water...

[OlliesDad]

Hi

For my previous cider brews I've used gallon demi-johns.

I've sanitised them using Milton fluid and cold water, basically filling them to the brim and allowing some of the liquid to flood over the brim, so I'm sure the insides are completely sterile.

Obviously this uses a fair bit of water but lately I've been using 15 litre bucket type FVs. I'm putting these in to slightly larger bins and filling these to fully immerse the FV.

The thing is it just seems like a hell of a lot of water that ends up going down the plug-hole. Is there another, better, less watery option?


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[MagnusTS]

I just rinse with a small volume of Starsan. I make up about a litre, shake the FV so it coats all of the inside.

 

[Fil]

no need to sanitise the exterior of the FV, just the interior and lip, however a switch to a no rinse sanitiser such as starsan would be cheaper in the long run and cut down on the need for post sanitation rinses. not forgetting you can apply the sanitiser with a trigger spray bottle meaning 1l of sanitiser will go a very long way..

but brewing uses a lot of water, google the stats for the commercial breweries each pint of product uses many more pints of water in production..

 

[Roddy]

I used to use VWP to sanitise, and then have to rinse, like you

nowadays, so long as I'm cleaning my FV's as soon as I'm done with them (so they don't get dried on crud), I'll use a StarSan solution too. I'm sure it's like 5ml per litre or something, so a bottle of that stuff goes a long way. like Fil I have a 1L spray bottle on the go all the time, that I'll give my FV's another quick skoosh of when I come to use them again.

Also good for bottles !

 

[RichieBeer]

however a switch to a no rinse sanitiser such as starsan would be cheaper in the long run and cut down on the need for post sanitation rinses. not forgetting you can apply the sanitiser with a trigger spray bottle meaning 1l of sanitiser will go a very long way..

Milton is a no-rinse santiser.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The thing is it just seems like a hell of a lot of water that ends up going down the plug-hole. Is there another, better, less watery option?

You do not need to fill the DJ or FV to the brim i use Milton tablets (2 to a full washing up bowl of water) then transfer about a litre to the DJ's or FV then i put a solid bung in the DJ and give it a good shake making sure as best i can all the internal surface is covered, i then wait 8 minutes and do the same again at 15 minutes its done and i have never had a problem in over 3 years, i do the same with the FV but roll the bucket on its since to cover the sides then tip it upside down and swirl it with my finger covering the airlock hole, i do this again as above 8 minutes later.

.

 

[Ken L]

There's cleaning and there's sanitising.
I used to clean and sanitise with a commercial product but now mostly clean with a mix of bleach and washing up liquid in warm water.
Give everything a good scrub then rinse off and so there are no residual smells.
As said above, sanitisation can be undertaken with a spray bottle of something like starsan or a quick wipe over with a dilute bleach solution and a hot water rinse.

 

[ScottE75]

I use Sodium percarbonate to clean (oxy-bleach no rinse sanitizer) and sodium metabisulphate to sterilise. 2 ltrs of sulphite solution will keep for weeks in a 10ltr bucket with a lid.

 

[foxbat]

Milton is a no-rinse santiser.

True, but since it breaks down into sodium chloride I'd still try to shake out as much of it as possible.

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
Starsan only needs a 30 second application to fully sanitise, as does Charlie Talley's bleach and vinegar sanitiser. I use the latter - a small amount of the solution in the FV followed by rolling it and a final shake does the job for me.

 

[Vinotinto]

And with care the Starsan can be used over and over and over again.

 

[MattH1973]

True, but since it breaks down into sodium chloride I'd still try to shake out as much of it as possible.

I use Milton but still rinse for exactly this reason. Does anyone brew with drops of Milton still in the vessels and can they confirm if this is OK ?

Maybe I will do a quick 5 litre turbo cider experiment.

 

[OlliesDad]

I use Milton but still rinse for exactly this reason. Does anyone brew with drops of Milton still in the vessels and can they confirm if this is OK ?

Maybe I will do a quick 5 litre turbo cider experiment.

Hmmmmmm, I use Milton precisely because you don't to rinse! Or so I thought!

Current batch FV and accessories wasn't rinse and I also have dilute solution in the airlock.

What is the worse that can happen?
A bleachy taint?
It's not going to kill anyone, is it?


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[OlliesDad]

I use Milton but still rinse for exactly this reason. Does anyone brew with drops of Milton still in the vessels and can they confirm if this is OK ?

Maybe I will do a quick 5 litre turbo cider experiment.

Hmmmmmm, I use Milton precisely because you don't to rinse! Or so I thought!

Current batch FV and accessories wasn't rinse and I also have dilute solution in the airlock.

What is the worse that can happen?
A bleachy taint?
It's not going to kill anyone, is it?


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[foxbat]

I use Milton but still rinse for exactly this reason. Does anyone brew with drops of Milton still in the vessels and can they confirm if this is OK ?

Maybe I will do a quick 5 litre turbo cider experiment.

I wouldn't risk a batch to that. The sterilising action is done through the release of small amounts of chlorine that is harmless to people (hence no rinse). Chlorine can react with yeast to form medicinal, TCP tasting chlorophenols that do not go away with age. I would guess that the small amount of chlorine in Milton gasses off quite quickly to leave salt and water behind. It all depends on how much is left at the point the yeast goes to work.

Starsan, by contrast, is an acid-based sanitizer that breaks down into yeast nutrient! (phosphates).

 

[DaddyCool]

I wouldn't risk a batch to that. The sterilising action is done through the release of small amounts of chlorine that is harmless to people (hence no rinse). Chlorine can react with yeast to form medicinal, TCP tasting chlorophenols that do not go away with age. I would guess that the small amount of chlorine in Milton gasses off quite quickly to leave salt and water behind. It all depends on how much is left at the point the yeast goes to work.

Starsan, by contrast, is an acid-based sanitizer that breaks down into yeast nutrient! (phosphates).

Sounds like someone has been listening in chem classes! Thanks for the useful info.

 

[Bigcol49]

I wouldn't risk a batch to that. . . .
Starsan, by contrast, is an acid-based sanitizer that breaks down into yeast nutrient! (phosphates).

Hi!
I use a solution of 40ml household bleach in 5 litres water with 8ml white vinegar added - it's a no-rinse sanitiser.
I get no chlorine taint following application and there's no medicinal TCP taste to my brews.
This no-rinse sanitiser was suggested by Charlie Talley, the developer of StarSan.

 

[Cwrw666]

For a plastic fermentation bucket just use a kettlefull of boiling water. The ultimate non rinse sanitiser. To be honest I do glass bottles and demijohns as well but for the latter I hold my breath while doing it. Haven't exploded one yet but there's always a first time.

 

[OlliesDad]

This got me thinking, I do a lot of pickling (I mean like onions and so forth, not cider consumption!), especially at this time of year, and to sterilise the jars I often just put them through the dishwasher on the hottest cycle.
Apparently the dishwasher tabs have a bleaching component and the heat does the rest.
I realise it might be a bit impractical for demi-johns or large FVs but would it be technically possible?


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[foxbat]

Hi!
I use a solution of 40ml household bleach in 5 litres water with 8ml white vinegar added - it's a no-rinse sanitiser.
I get no chlorine taint following application and there's no medicinal TCP taste to my brews.
This no-rinse sanitiser was suggested by Charlie Talley, the developer of StarSan.

That's Hillbilly Milton that is :lol:. I guess from the fact that you're still alive Charlie remembered to tell you to add the vineger AFTER diluting the bleach!