Re-using Puro Oxi?

[Yuri]

Hi,

Does anybody have any experience re-using Puro Oxi solution after using it for sanitisation? How many times do you re-use it?

Yuri

 

[ARNWD]

How many times do you re-use it?

None. Nil. Never.

Sodium carbonate peroxide/sodium percarbonate reacts with water and breaks down in 15 minutes to 1 hour depending on water temperature.

Dissolved in water, sodium percarbonate yields a mixture of hydrogen peroxide (which decomposes to water). oxygen, sodium and carbonate. See Wikipedia for the details.

 

[JockyBrewer]

It’s also not a sanitiser, it’s a cleaner used to remove soil from equipment after use, and it needs rinsing off.

Once rinsed you really want to use a sanitiser before equipment use.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I reuse my homemade PBW a few times, depending on how clean it is. Surprising how long I see bubbling occurring and pH activity on parts placed in the bucket.

It should not be used as a sanitiser, use something else for this role such as starsan.

 

[Yuri]

Hi, thanks I didn't know that.. Is there a sanitiser I can get easily without going to a special fermenting store?

 

[JockyBrewer]

Wherever you got your Puro Oxi - it'll be called Starsan, Chemsan, Puro San, something like that.

In a pinch you can also use unscented thin bleach diluted with water, but getting the right concentration can be tricky as product concentrations vary.

 

[Clint]

You can use the stuff for sanitising baby bottles.

 

[Yuri]

Wherever you got your Puro Oxi - it'll be called Starsan, Chemsan, Puro San, something like that.

In a pinch you can also use unscented thin bleach diluted with water, but getting the right concentration can be tricky as product concentrations vary.

I got it online and didn't want to order again. Anyway, I got starsan, how often can I reuse that solution?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

You can reuse starsan for months in my experience. If you have pH meter or strips as long as it's around 4 then it will work.
Apparently lasts better if made with distilled water but I've never bothered.
I keep mine in an old plastic fermenter and keep a lid on to keep dust etc out.
But do make sure your gear is free of dirt debris before sanitizer.
Similar though physical great and rinse is a good idea before you use the oxiclean.

 

[JockyBrewer]

I got it online and didn't want to order again. Anyway, I got starsan, how often can I reuse that solution?

You can keep sanitiser as long as the pH stays low, but I wouldn’t reuse it.

Most economical way is to get a 1 litre spray bottle from a garden centre (£1 at my local Homebase), make it up in that, then spray it on when you need it.

Although the dilution rate of starsan is 1.5ml per litre of water, so a bottle goes a long way even if you make it up and throw it away after use.

 

[Clint]

This ^.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

You can keep sanitiser as long as the pH stays low, but I wouldn’t reuse it.

Most economical way is to get a 1 litre spray bottle from a garden centre (£1 at my local Homebase), make it up in that, then spray it on when you need it.

Although the dilution rate of starsan is 1.5ml per litre of water, so a bottle goes a long way even if you make it up and throw it away after use.

Well if you spray your kegs to sanitise them good luck. But obvious impossible to reuse sprayed starsan.
But I do agree throw away after use, but I define use as pH failure or gross contamination of my starsan.
No way would I throw 20 litres of starsan away after filling a keg and purging it.
Or after sanitising a bottle with 50ml and shaking it.

 

[peebee]

There's a bit of confusion going on here.

The topic started with a brand of "Oxy bleach", a propriety formular that'll certainly contain Sodium Percarbonate. It's active principal is a breakdown product of Percarbonate, namely Hydrogen Peroxide, which itself quickly breaks down to hydroxyl radicals which are pretty destructive to cell walls, and many other compounds (Peroxide is a bleach, deodoriser, cleaner, etc.). It's breaking down so has a limited lifespan (a few hours). What remains is oxygen (which creates the obvious bubbles), water, and sodium carbonate. The later ("washing soda") if very alkaline (but not so alkaline as "caustic") and will continue to breakdown fatty deposits for (?) time afterwards, but does need a bit of mechanical agitation to help it along.

Into this topic has been dropped "Starsan". It is completely different! It has virtually no cleaning ability, but includes an acid loving "surfactant". It disrupts cell walls, which make many single celled bugs vulnerable to it. It remains active for days, weeks, etc. Just make sure the pH stays low.

Okay?

 

[MashBag]

There's a bit of confusion going on here.

Phew. Thank you.

 

[peebee]

Phew. Thank you.

Ah ... but don't think I'm ranting because people here are mixing different products. I'm ranting because there's so much contradictory information (or not enough in some cases) that it's difficult not to make the wrong choice. I naturally blame the "home-brew heroes" who use their popularity to disseminate bad information. And some confusing information marketing some products! I'm fed up with being caught out these misinformation traps myself (only in recent times too) so am in the middle of trying to make some sense of this "sanitising" muddle.

For example: What concentration of Hydrogen Peroxide do I need for effective sanitation? So far, all the indications I've gathered seem to suggest 3-6%. I normally use 10g per litre of Sodium Percarbonate, you can easily find how much H2O2 that makes ... about 0.3%. Not enough? Suggests why people here consider Percarbonate to be a cleaner but not a sanitiser?

Now, look at Harris "Suresan". Sold as a sanitiser, the obvious thought is it'll be like Starsan? But it's not. It's Sodium Percarbonate. And the usage is 5g per Litre, or about 0.15% concentration of H2O2. A sanitiser? They do say minimum contact time is 15 minutes (not 1 minute like Starsan). And, unlike Starsan, the solution is only "effective" for an hour. No-rinse they say ... yeuch ... really?

Confused? I am!

 

[Birdsnestbrewery]

I seem to recall Harris Suresan is described as breaking down to water after an hour, hence it's described as no-rinse. Certainly I have had no issues using it as such, although I have pretty much switched to star san or equivalent other brands. I still have a tub of Suresan that I will use from time to time.

 

[peebee]

I seem to recall Harris Suresan is described as breaking down to water after an hour, hence it's described as no-rinse. Certainly I have had no issues using it as such, although I have pretty much switched to star san or equivalent other brands. I still have a tub of Suresan that I will use from time to time.

It's "no-rinse" because it won't harm you! The other breakdown product of sodium carbonate is highly alkaline (and also smells of damp laundry) which if not cleared out well could adversely affect the beer flavour?

 

[peebee]

I'll repost this here. It's some of the results of me trying to tie down what's right and wrong concerning surface cleaning and sanitation:

I dug up that article:

It was from:
https://mycoscience.com/sterilization-vs-sanitization-vs-disinfection/
I usually prefer something more "academic" and "local". Seems I was having a wider search. The above table missed out the iodine stuff:

Bleach (hypochlorite) doesn't come over as great: "Best for floor cleaning"! But I am troubled by these non-academic articles ... what they say is bad is what they don't sell or make money from!

and

... I've heard of a commercial surface disinfectant containing 1.4% hydrogen peroxide (30-60 second contact time), and Harris Suresan, which is Sodium Percarbonate, which could only come up with a tenth of that (but they do say 15 minute contact time).

Alcohol I've seen down as 64-73% for "optimum" effectiveness. But I have, for a lifetime, considered 40% as effective.

Why can't I find "definitive" guidance on this?