Pubs closing

[Chippy_Tea]

They are discussing pub closures this morning on the radio and they said 250 pubs have already closed this year I found the article below which shows 2.1 are closing every day.

As I mentioned in the what are you drinking thread we went out on Saturday two meals were roughly £40 we had two drinks each that took it to nearly £60, we stopped on to watch the football and had a few more drinks and by the time we got a taxi home (very short distance) we had spent over £100, that is not something most could afford to do regularly.




The data, which was obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, found that 769 pub businesses entered insolvency in 2023, up from 518 in 2022. This equates to an average of 2.1 closures a day, up from 1.4 per day in 2022.

However, the above does not account for the closures of individual pubs by managed groups that did not enter insolvency. In total, there were 38,175 pubs in the UK at the end of 2023, down from 41,015 a decade earlier.

 

[An Ankoù]

As I mentioned in the what are you drinking thread we went out on Saturday two meals were roughly £40 we had two drinks each that took it to nearly £60, we stopped on to watch the football and had a few more drinks and by the time we got a taxi home we had spent over £100, that is not something most could afford to do regularly.

Agreed, for most of us, a meal out is a treat, but £20 a head is by no means expensive and it doesn't seem to have gone up very much since I lived in Britain before 2016. With all the rest of the stuff, yes, it adds up.
What worries me is that this is linked to pub closures. Are we talking about pubs or restaurants here? Have to admit that the Sunday roast we had in the Haunch of Venison in Salisbury seemed quite expensive for what you got and, with the beer factored in, was not very good value for money, but the place was packed. That was earlier this year and my most recent experience of pub grub. Other pubs that didn't sell food seemed to be booming, but maybe there;s a big difference between Salisbury and Scunthorpe.
When we go out for a meal here we'd pay about the same for a simple lunch of something nice but nothing special, with drinks on top.

 

[MashBag]

I think the pubs are experiencing a full on **** storm.

1 Cost of living crisis.

2 Older punters don't/can't spend as much.

3 The young crowd are vegetablish/alcohol free.

4 Supermarket booze is cheaper.

5 Foodies don't like paying for something they can cook at home.

6 We seem to me turning into individualists*.. So the need to socialise is reduced.

*Evidenced by: Living alone is up. Inconsiderate driving (like missiles). Working from home. Marriage rate in decline. etc


Cheers

 

[Chippy_Tea]

for most of us, a meal out is a treat, but £20 a head is by no means expensive

I might be a tightwad but this is basic pub grub £18 for fish and chips is not cheap.

They serve good beer but it's nearly £5 a pint its not a wonder people buy beer in and get a takeaway and it's killing pubs.

 

[Leon103]

We go out often as a family of 4 (both kids esr children's meals) and its often £100 plus. It does get expensive but usually we go to places we know are food for their food so worth it.

Yesterday we went out for Sunday lunch the deal was a whole chicken and sides for £30. We order 1.5 chickens to get extra sides and brought home thr spare chicken. The food was spot on, it's was a well known local hotel. But it was dead because they don't do marketting online and nobody knows about the Sunday lunch deal. For 2 people you can have half a chicken and all the sides for £15. Can't beat that

 

[An Ankoù]

As a matter of interest, how much is a medium cod and chips from a chip shop?

 

[samale]

We go out often as a family of 4 (both kids esr children's meals) and its often £100 plus. It does get expensive but usually we go to places we know are food for their food so worth it.

Yesterday we went out for Sunday lunch the deal was a whole chicken and sides for £30. We order 1.5 chickens to get extra sides and brought home thr spare chicken. The food was spot on, it's was a well known local hotel. But it was dead because they don't do marketting online and nobody knows about the Sunday lunch deal. For 2 people you can have half a chicken and all the sides for £15. Can't beat that

That's good value

 

[samale]

As a matter of interest, how much is a medium cod and chips from a chip shop?

Around 10 pounds here

 

[samale]

Food is a very hard business to survive in. Profit margins are very tight, rates and energy costs are the biggest factors

 

[Leon103]

That's good value

It is. Especially as all their other food is super expensive. They get a lot of bikes coming over the old driver roads, cheaper for 2 to share half a chicken than a sandwich

 

[samale]

It is. Especially as all their other food is super expensive. They get a lot of bikes coming over the old driver roads, cheaper for 2 to share half a chicken than a sandwich

I would imagine that deal is to get people in the door. They would then look to make a profit on the big hitters. Tea/coffee, wine, soft drinks and desserts

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Around 10 pounds here

£8 here.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Don't get me wrong I am not saying it's a total rip off the pub has to pay bills and staff etc but with the cost of living being so high and a meal for two with a couple of beers costing £60 plus it's not surprising people stay ar home and buy beer, wine and a takeaway.

There was talk recently of the government helping pubs to stay afloat but it seems to have been put on the back burner.

 

[An Ankoù]

The point really is that we've become impoverished over the last decade or so. Prices have risen, wages, by and large have not, tax thresholds have not. Whose fault is that? Were things this bad 15 or 20 years ago.
Oh. And we're (I mean you are) paying more in taxes than in most people's living memories. Where is all this money going? To the NHS, schools, hospitals, coppers, libraries, social services, child benefits, youth clubs??? Nope it's not going there. Keeping illegals on 5 star hotels, with champagne and caviar, luxury cruises on liners like Bibi Stockholm? Farridge would have us think so.
Nope it's going into the pockets of Tory cronies. Where's Baroness Mone, for one?

 

[MashBag]

Fish and chips for 2 plus tea an coffee, eat it £25 ish

 

[hoppyscotty]

Food is a very hard business to survive in. Profit margins are very tight, rates and energy costs are the biggest factors

Well it's competitive industry for sure, but far more margin than beer, though your point on energy costs is valid. Pubs that serve food generally have a better chance of survival.. they make far far more margin on food sales rather than beer sales. Got to be good food of course.. No hope if they serve up slop.

My local is a listed building and is crying out to start doing food, but cannot modify the building in order to build a kitchen so they are forced to stick as a boozer. Luckily its a great boozer and still attracts that classic local village thing so is thriving, but its under alot of competition from at least three other food pubs in the village...two are tied to big macro breweries so beer is crap and serve up microwaved pre-packaged meals prepared by spotty teenagers, the other is closed currently due to the donkeys who were running it before, but has great promise if someone who knew what they were doing got hold of it...unfortunately the building needs alot of repairs which is putting people off taking it on . It wouldn't take much for one of those other pubs to get their act together and offer better beer and do half decent proper food and that would put my local under alot of pressure.

There are two neighbouring villages that have large food pubs that do just that and they are full to the gunnels pretty much every night of the week, unbelievably successful with another four or five pubs in other villages in their chain just replicating the same formula and they are all equally as successful. Simple formula....good hearty food and a half decent price (not particularly cheap, but just cheap enough), and a decent selection of beers. So still plenty of people out there who want to go out to the pub if the offering is just right.

But for straight up pubs that cant do food the outlook is bleak. My local tries to get pop up street food vendors on their car park on Friday and Saturday nights but they are a bit unreliable so not a sustainable solution.

Medium cod and chips for a family of four with all the trimmings from our local chippy is about £24 (to be fair we share chips as you get a bucket full of them so one portion early stretches across four people). Not too bad I think considering a Dominos pizza (personally would rather eat the cardboard pizza box but the kids like it) would be over £40, local Indian take away £40 - £50...going out to town for a Pizza Express is not £100 for a family of four

 

[samale]

Well it's competitive industry for sure, but far more margin than beer, though your point on energy costs is valid. Pubs that serve food generally have a better chance of survival.. they make far far more margin on food sales rather than beer sales. Got to be good food of course.. No hope if they serve up slop.

My local is a listed building and is crying out to start doing food, but cannot modify the building in order to build a kitchen so they are forced to stick as a boozer. Luckily its a great boozer and still attracts that classic local village thing so is thriving, but its under alot of competition from at least three other food pubs in the village...two are tied to big macro breweries so beer is **** and serve up microwaved pre-packaged meals prepared by spotty teenagers, the other is closed currently due to the donkeys who were running it before, but has great promise if someone who knew what they were doing got hold of it...unfortunately the building needs alot of repairs which is putting people off taking it on . It wouldn't take much for one of those other pubs to get their act together and offer better beer and do half decent proper food and that would put my local under alot of pressure.

There are two neighbouring villages that have large food pubs that do just that and they are full to the gunnels pretty much every night of the week, unbelievably successful with another four or five pubs in other villages in their chain just replicating the same formula and they are all equally as successful. Simple formula....good hearty food and a half decent price (not particularly cheap, but just cheap enough), and a decent selection of beers. So still plenty of people out there who want to go out to the pub if the offering is just right.

But for straight up pubs that cant do food the outlook is bleak. My local tries to get pop up street food vendors on their car park on Friday and Saturday nights but they are a bit unreliable so not a sustainable solution.

Medium cod and chips for a family of four with all the trimmings from our local chippy is about £24 (to be fair we share chips as you get a bucket full of them so one portion early stretches across four people). Not too bad I think considering a Dominos pizza (personally would rather eat the cardboard pizza box but the kids like it) would be over £40, local Indian take away £40 - £50...going out to town for a Pizza Express is not £100 for a family of four

A beer only pub is struggling. Nice food attracts people. Profit on a pint only won't keep a pub open

 

[Cwrw666]

Lots of pubs closing and yet there are still so many s*** pubs around with bad beer and not so many customers. Personally I'm fed up with buying beer that's not a patch on my homebrew at 10 times the cost...

 

[hoppyscotty]

Well it's a volume business...sell enough volume and you're going to survive. My local captures a village population and it's an expanding village and is currently thriving with good footfall every day of the week - been my local for 20 years. similar story in the surrounding villages. But as I say and where I agree with you, its future is certainly not secure. It wouldn't take much for the other pubs, or government legislation to put it under alot of pressure.

The good thing about it is it attracts the yoof's., so a whole new generation being prized away from their playstation and actually going out and socialising, so hopefully that is the next generation who will support the pub. Also the pub has changed. 20 years ago it was strictly a Bass and Pedigree kind of place, now the Bass and Pedigree has gone, now has 4 rotating cask ales and the usual offerings of trendy lagers and Beavertown, and expanding the repertoire regarding fancy Gin's and Prossecos, so the ladies are coming out in force...though Carling is still their biggest seller by some margin

Looking at areas around me where long established pubs have failed it is due to them selling either crap beer or just not investing in the business and they become crap holes that nobody want to go to, or the local demographics changing and those living in that area just don't go out to their locals.

I suspect it a bigger problem in larger towns and cities and those country places that are in decline. In my village and surrounding villages pubs are doing really well with each village having several pubs to choose from. Long may that continue.

Locals...use them or lose them.

 

[Leon103]

I would imagine that deal is to get people in the door. They would then look to make a profit on the big hitters. Tea/coffee, wine, soft drinks and desserts

Yeah but not once is it advertised