Problem syphoning my brew

[Dave 666]

So, I syphoned and bottled my second (and first AG) brew today. Started off well, very clear already but soon encountered a problem.

My system was to syphon from the main FV into the small 10 litre FV. The second FV has the muslin cloth clamped over it and I syphon over this to filter out any remaining bits. Then syphon into bottles from that. Pretty simple and straight forwards I'd say. For this I'm using an east start syphon where its clipped onto the FV, a couple of pumps and I'm away. Only for some reason after half way syphoning things were getting more and more cloudy were as at the start the beer was as said already very clear. Of cause, I might add that I had to repump a number of times, so I'm guessing this simply mixed up the brew with the settled sediment.

Now in retrospect I could have simply left most of it in the second FV for a few days to settle again and written of the few litres I couldn't fit in. But I had spent an hour cleaning and sterilising my bottles and gear ready to bottle up, and thought sod it, just bottle it and it'll settle in there instead.

Time will tell how long its going to take (it it does) to settle in the bottles while it carbs at the same time. But kind of kicking myself now for not thinking to simply leave it a few days in the second FV as it would be less issues later.

So, any tips for future reference as I don't want this problem again?.

 

[Clint]

If you can cold crash your fv after fermentation. Syphon into bottling bucket containing your priming sugar dissolved in boiling water,stir gently with sanitised spoon if you like. Use bottling wand on bucket tap to bottle.

 

[Martybhoy]

Be careful when using an auto-siphon, the initial pumping brings some air in to the mix. I siphon the first 200ml or so in to a jug which sits in the FV. Then when it runs clear (no bubbles), I move the tube so that the wort runs straight in to the FV.

If at any time I have to re-pump the auto-siphon (almost never), I would use the jug again.

Prevents oxidation.

 

[stigman]

My main tip has to be Relax it'll all come good in the end.

 

[Dave 666]

If you can cold crash your fv after fermentation. Syphon into bottling bucket containing your priming sugar dissolved in boiling water,stir gently with sanitised spoon if you like. Use bottling wand on bucket tap to bottle.

Well with my early experimentation into making my own cool bag I might just do next time in conjunction with other things said. How long is cold crashing required for and the sort of temps?.

With regards to what Martybhoy1980 says, maybe I'll either go primitive and use a jug and sack the auto syphon idea off or use the auto syphon for just the top to thirds only. But what you said has given me an idea or 2 I might play with. I just need to work out how an auto syphon can correctly work without introducing air which is clearly stirring up the settled sediment.

Stigman, yeah I guess we have all made these basic errors man, but now getting enough grain to see me through the next 12 10 litre AG brews. So aught to get the hang of it properly before I'm done with that lot.

 

[stigman]

Well with my early experimentation into making my own cool bag I might just do next time in conjunction with other things said. How long is cold crashing required for and the sort of temps?.

With regards to what Martybhoy1980 says, maybe I'll either go primitive and use a jug and sack the auto syphon idea off or use the auto syphon for just the top to thirds only. But what you said has given me an idea or 2 I might play with. I just need to work out how an auto syphon can correctly work without introducing air which is clearly stirring up the settled sediment.

Stigman, yeah I guess we have all made these basic errors man, but now getting enough grain to see me through the next 12 10 litre AG brews. So aught to get the hang of it properly before I'm done with that lot.

You could always brew hazy ipa's and say it's supposed to be like that here's a couple of my brews. One clear as a bell the other intentionally hazy as hell.

 

[Dave 666]

That top pic was pretty much what I was bottling up for the best part. Yet the bottom pic was fairly close to what the test sample was when I took my hydrometer reading!. Thankfully, I had a clear white bottle I used which I'm going to monitor to see how things settle over the next days and weeks.

 

[stigman]

That top pic was pretty much what I was bottling up for the best part. Yet the bottom pic was fairly close to what the test sample was when I took my hydrometer reading!. Thankfully, I had a clear white bottle I used which I'm going to monitor to see how things settle over the next days and weeks.

Those are two different beers all together one lemon meringue pale ale. One hazy new england ipa

 

[John Barleycorn]

Clear or not, I bet your ale will taste fantastic!!

 

[Graz]

Be careful when using an auto-siphon, the initial pumping brings some air in to the mix. I siphon the first 200ml or so in to a jug which sits in the FV. Then when it runs clear (no bubbles), I move the tube so that the wort runs straight in to the FV.

If at any time I have to re-pump the auto-siphon (almost never), I would use the jug again.

Prevents oxidation.

I do wonder about some folk on here, ditching beer just because it got a few bubbles in it, really? The tiny amount of air that 200ml of beer may or may not have absorbed is really not going to make a difference in 23L. Stop over analysing stuff folks, it's unnecessary stress

 

[Graz]

The second FV has the muslin cloth clamped over it and I syphon over this to filter out any remaining bits.

So following on from my previous post, the way I read this you have a muslin stretched over the top of the FV and siphon through it so that the beer "rains" into the bottom of the FV? This really would be a good way to oxidise a beer and spoil it. If this is what you're doing then don't! Siphon so that the outlet of the siphon is at the bottom of the vessel you're siphoning into so there's no splashing or frothing up.

 

[Martybhoy]

I do wonder about some folk on here, ditching beer just because it got a few bubbles in it, really? The tiny amount of air that 200ml of beer may or may not have absorbed is really not going to make a difference in 23L. Stop over analysing stuff folks, it's unnecessary stress

Quality over quantity mate.

Each to their own I suppose.

 

[Dave 666]

So following on from my previous post, the way I read this you have a muslin stretched over the top of the FV and siphon through it so that the beer "rains" into the bottom of the FV? This really would be a good way to oxidise a beer and spoil it. If this is what you're doing then don't! Siphon so that the outlet of the siphon is at the bottom of the vessel you're siphoning into so there's no splashing or frothing up.

Seeing as the auto syphon doesn't seem to have a fitted filter for the bigger chunks, have you any suggestions on how to prevent my syphoning the bigger chunks from 1 FV to another as this was my main reason for using the muslin in this way?. I was thinking of a small offcut of muslin tied over the end of the syphon that goes into the first FV and seeing if that works?.

 

[GerritT]

I do wonder about some folk on here, ditching beer just because it got a few bubbles in it, really? The tiny amount of air that 200ml of beer may or may not have absorbed is really not going to make a difference in 23L. Stop over analysing stuff folks, it's unnecessary stress

"I'm gonna ditch 23 liter of wort because of the MINOR POSSIBILITY of a little oxidation", I think that person should not be brewing.

 

[MmmBeer]

Seeing as the auto syphon doesn't seem to have a fitted filter for the bigger chunks, have you any suggestions on how to prevent my syphoning the bigger chunks from 1 FV to another as this was my main reason for using the muslin in this way?. I was thinking of a small offcut of muslin tied over the end of the syphon that goes into the first FV and seeing if that works?.

I have tried a number of options, the bucket trap on the end of the syphon tube and these two gadgets off ebay.

The first is merely a filter that fits on the end of your syphon tube in the FV, to prevent large solids getting into the tube, the second has a bellows to create the syphon action and includes the same filter. I could only attach the filter onto the flexible syphon hose, meaning it was hard to ensure it stayed deep enough in the FV. The second just seemed so flimsy that I have never bothered trying it.

I now find the best option is to carefully insert the bucket trap tube into the FV and clip in place, carefully again, tilt the FV by about 3 - 4 cm, so that the bucket trap is at the lowest point, then start syphoning. If the trub remains undisturbed, no sediment should get into your bottling bucket.

 

[John Barleycorn]

When you start to syphon it would be better to not lower the tube right to the bottom of the FV as you start. It will syphon just as well a few inches below the surface of the ale.
Keep your tube at that height and spend a minute making sure the other end is right at the bottom of the receiving vessel. This will discourage any aeration.
Now slightly tip your FV so it rests on something to keep it up. Gently and slowly lower the syphon tube to the bottom-most part of the FV. Now if anything does get through it will cause no problems.
You can practice this using a quantity of water to see how it works out without risking your product.

 

[Dave 666]

When you start to syphon it would be better to not lower the tube right to the bottom of the FV as you start. It will syphon just as well a few inches below the surface of the ale.
Keep your tube at that height and spend a minute making sure the other end is right at the bottom of the receiving vessel. This will discourage any aeration.
Now slightly tip your FV so it rests on something to keep it up. Gently and slowly lower the syphon tube to the bottom-most part of the FV. Now if anything does get through it will cause no problems.
You can practice this using a quantity of water to see how it works out without risking your product.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I think this has certainly put me on the path to better success with my next brew. I think part of the problem was that I had to re-pump a number of times when I guess I should never have had to seeing as the auto syphon was always in the first FV. Why this was I've no idea as such, except I guess air was getting into the line somehow. So I'll certainly have a better look at it using plain water to see if I can identity where, if any, the issue lies.

But its such a simplistic and obvious solution to keep the auto syphon towards the top of the FV than right at the bottom like I thought I'd read I was supposed to?. As clearly it would unsettle the sediment by starting the pumping right at the bottom.

By the way, after a day and half things are already settling very quickly in the bottles (1 clear glass bottle) I figure things are nearly as clear in the bottles now as they were before syphoning, if a lot more sediment in the bottles than I'm happy with.

 

[John Barleycorn]

I'm sure that sediment won't ruin your ale. Of course you'd like to turn out a perfect product. I wouldn't be discouraged, you can treat this as a learning experience.
I'm as green as you and I bet I have had and will have just as many, though different, 'learning experiences'. If I get the perfect ale at this stage it will be a fluke. Having said that I'm enjoying brewing the 'imperfect' ale I've made and consumed so far. Could be that by the time all my beers are coming out perfect I'll be bored with the whole process.
May that day be not soon arriving.

Another hint I came across which seems to be pretty standard stuff is to syphon into a 'bottling bucket' first and fill your bottles from there. It lets you have a lot more control over what gets into the bottle or keg.

 

[Gunge]

How about fitting a tap to all your FVs thus eliminating all this syphoning nonsense?

 

[Cwrw666]

Yup, taps all the way.

Of course, as your beer clears the sediment slowly drifts down towards the bottom, so if you're syphoning then of course it'll start off clear and get hazier as you syphon from lower in the FV. Opposite way round if you drain from a tap - cloudy first then clear after a bit.

But don't worry, after a few weeks in the bottle all the sediment will be firmly glued to the bottom of the bottle unless you're using something exotic like a saison yeast.