Priming 5l Kegs vs bottles

[An Ankoù]

So how do you clean and sanitise your kegs ready for re-use?
And are the French ones the same as the UK ones. Five of the six I have are by Fass Frisch (German). Euro minikegs ?!

Much the same as a bottle. I wash out with chlorine-based cleaner- mainly to remove the smoke as I like Schlenkerla Marzen- the rinse thoroughly with water, empty as much as I can get out and leave with the bung hole and the tap open. Rinse with metabisulphite solution before use the same as I would a bottle and finally rinse again with fresh water.
The Schlenkerla kegs are exactly the same as the Adnams Ghost Ship kegs and others I used to see in Tesco and elsewhere except they don't have the plastic handle. I've not come across them in France.
Doom Bar use the same keg, but different fittings and they're very difficult to refurbish.

 

[terrym]

Much the same as a bottle. I wash out with chlorine-based cleaner- mainly to remove the smoke as I like Schlenkerla Marzen- the rinse thoroughly with water, empty as much as I can get out and leave with the bung hole and the tap open. Rinse with metabisulphite solution before use the same as I would a bottle and finally rinse again with fresh water.
The Schlenkerla kegs are exactly the same as the Adnams Ghost Ship kegs and others I used to see in Tesco and elsewhere except they don't have the plastic handle. I've not come across them in France.
Doom Bar use the same keg, but different fittings and they're very difficult to refurbish.

If the Doom bar kegs come with Fass Frisch type fittings with a red vent flange insert (and black vent plug) that can't be removed easily, I found the easiest way to get them out them is to (mis)use a soldering iron to cut way some of the the plastic and then they can be pulled out and replaced with removable rubber vent plug assembly type. But don't take away too much plastic or it will fall into the keg, and that's that .

 

[Falco]

Are your Fass Frisch kegs recycled or did you get them new @terrym?

 

[terrym]

Are your Fass Frisch kegs recycled or did you get them new @terrym?

Recycled

 

[An Ankoù]

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/priming-5l-kegs-vs-bottles.87550/post-912514Post #2 of this thread (link above). The top picture shows the keg and fittings I mean. All the bits can be reassembled and recycled without replacing anything. Doom Bar taps and vents are different though. There's another type of fitting for the same keg which you (used to be able to) find on Lidl Heffeweisen kegs. With this one, you draw the beer off through the tap until there's no more pressure in the keg, and then you push a plastic core, which is part of the bung assembly, into the keg. I've used these too, and they're ok if you're prepared to drink the rest of the keg before it goes flat. I suspect there's some kind of tap assembly which is suited to this kind of bung.

 

[Falco]

Anyone know if the Ghost Ship kegs have the same reusable top bung as the image in post #2?

 

[MMBF]

#

Anyone know if the Ghost Ship kegs have the same reusable top bung as the image in post #2?

I am currently have 6 Ghost Ship mini party kegs and have used each at least 4 times. I have replaced the bungs with pressure valve bungs from Brew2 Bottle, because I find them easier to use and I dispense with a party star tap rather than the in built gravity tap.
I originally had a issue with under carbonation, but have found my own sweet spot is 21 to 23g of table sugar per mini keg. I have never had a issue with blow off or deforming kegs due to carbonation pressure. But what I have found is that carbonation generally takes up to three weeks in a warmer temperature (I keep mine at 25C for this period). Then two weeks in a cooler temperature for conditioning.
I also have another six mini party kegs that I purchased empty, but these don’t have a in built gravity dispensing tap.
My first attempt did result in a metallic taste, but I think that this was a cleaning issue.
After use, I now rinse and shake the keg with cold water and then leave them soaking in water with washing up liquid over night. Then I make sure the mini kegs is dried and free from water before they are stored.
Before I fill the keg again with beer, again I rinse with water then fill with a weak solution of Chem San for a few minutes and then rinse again with clean water. Now I am cleaning my kegs like this I no longer appear to get any off tastes.
This may not be the correct process according to the more experienced and knowledgeable people out there, but It has worked for me over the last six months.

 

[Falco]

Thanks for sharing your experience with these @MMBF think I'll get me some Ghost Ship to drink and reuse the keg first before I jump in with buying the Party Star and empty kegs.

 

[Ben034]

#

I am currently have 6 Ghost Ship mini party kegs and have used each at least 4 times. I have replaced the bungs with pressure valve bungs from Brew2 Bottle, because I find them easier to use and I dispense with a party star tap rather than the in built gravity tap.
I originally had a issue with under carbonation, but have found my own sweet spot is 21 to 23g of table sugar per mini keg. I have never had a issue with blow off or deforming kegs due to carbonation pressure. But what I have found is that carbonation generally takes up to three weeks in a warmer temperature (I keep mine at 25C for this period). Then two weeks in a cooler temperature for conditioning.
I also have another six mini party kegs that I purchased empty, but these don’t have a in built gravity dispensing tap.
My first attempt did result in a metallic taste, but I think that this was a cleaning issue.
After use, I now rinse and shake the keg with cold water and then leave them soaking in water with washing up liquid over night. Then I make sure the mini kegs is dried and free from water before they are stored.
Before I fill the keg again with beer, again I rinse with water then fill with a weak solution of Chem San for a few minutes and then rinse again with clean water. Now I am cleaning my kegs like this I no longer appear to get any off tastes.
This may not be the correct process according to the more experienced and knowledgeable people out there, but It has worked for me over the last six months.

I may be wrong, but for the 5l minikegs, isn't around 12g the maximum recommend? If you're using a pressure valve, it won't be a problem but I would have thought without a pressure valve the keg would buckle. I once went for 16g table sugar and had to vent the minikeg repeatedly to be able to pour.

 

[MMBF]

Falco, the added advantage is the Ghost Ship is a lovely beer.

I may be wrong, but for the 5l minikegs, isn't around 12g the maximum recommend? If you're using a pressure valve, it won't be a problem but I would have thought without a pressure valve the keg would buckle. I once went for 16g table sugar and had to vent the minikeg repeatedly to be able to pour.

I started out using 12g but everything was flat. Over a period of about eight different brews I gradually raised the sugar level. My last two brews (4kegs each) have been done at 21g and yes they have been frothy to start pouring, but I usually pour just under a pint first into a jug to get rid of excess pressure, the beer is drinkable from the jug once the foam settles down. Following this I have no issues with pouring.
The vented bungs release at 2.5bar (36psi) so that would suggest that up to this is a workable pressure. I have also used non vented bungs at 21g with no issues.
I do still use around 15g for some ales for beers that I don’t want much carbonation in.
Although I too have read countless warnings about party kegs splitting, I have only seen one post that actually showed this and then the author posts he thinks it was because he left it in the sun through a door that was left open.
As I said in my original post this is the current method that I am using to my satisfaction. It may not be the right or recommended way but it’s working for me.
In my very limited brewing experience compared to others I have found that there are many ways to skin a rabbit in brewing and only post my experiences as I have found them.

 

[Falco]

Falco, the added advantage is the Ghost Ship is a lovely beer.

Agreed @MMBF and it’s one of only a few UK beers currently available at present and at a decent price too. Might just get a couple or three

Interesting to read about your carbonation experiments too.

 

[Ben034]

Falco, the added advantage is the Ghost Ship is a lovely beer.

I started out using 12g but everything was flat. Over a period of about eight different brews I gradually raised the sugar level. My last two brews (4kegs each) have been done at 21g and yes they have been frothy to start pouring, but I usually pour just under a pint first into a jug to get rid of excess pressure, the beer is drinkable from the jug once the foam settles down. Following this I have no issues with pouring.
The vented bungs release at 2.5bar (36psi) so that would suggest that up to this is a workable pressure. I have also used non vented bungs at 21g with no issues.
I do still use around 15g for some ales for beers that I don’t want much carbonation in.
Although I too have read countless warnings about party kegs splitting, I have only seen one post that actually showed this and then the author posts he thinks it was because he left it in the sun through a door that was left open.
As I said in my original post this is the current method that I am using to my satisfaction. It may not be the right or recommended way but it’s working for me.
In my very limited brewing experience compared to others I have found that there are many ways to skin a rabbit in brewing and only post my experiences as I have found them.

Absolutely, certainly if it works carry on. I would be interested to try a little more sugar in APA/IPA beers if you think it can handle it. Happy with 12g in bitters but could do with a little more fizz for these styles on the odd occasion that I keg them.

 

[An Ankoù]

I do 15g in an ale as standard. Because, I want to draw off as much from the tap as I can before opening the vent. It means I need two 2-pint glasses to collect the foam and fizz, which settles down in much the same way as draught Guinness does. I can get two or three pints and next day another pint or so. Then, once the vent is open, it has to be necked down that evening. BUT that's when I'm keeping the whole keg to myself. If a had a couple of likely lads round, I'd vent it first and share it out before putting the second one in the fridge to take the edge off.
I'd have no qualms about upping it to 24 g, that's well below a lager carbonation at 15C with Brewer's Friend. You can't make a bottle bomb out of a can, so if you overgas it madly, the worse that can happen is that a seam will leak or the red tap will shoot out and penetrate your forehead leaving a messy smear on the wall behind you as you sink into extinction, but who would want to go otherwise?
Only joking.

 

[cushyno]

However one of the latter leaked from the tap insert into the keg when I moved it

I have a mini keg that did the same, but stopped leaking when I pulled the tap out to its dispensing position. It's been filled since February and was supposed to be consumed with friends at Easter. I still have it and it seems to be holding pressure. I hope the beer inside is ok.

There's not a lot that can be done if tap seals begin to leak on these pre-filled kegs. They aren't designed for maintenance or longevity.

 

[An Ankoù]

I hope the beer inside is ok.

SInce the tap is already ready to go, why not give it a little twist and check whether it's ok?

 

[cushyno]

Looks like it's holding pressure ok

 

[BrummieBrewer]

Apologies for hijacking the thread slightly but I am looking to buy a couple of mini kegs and am looking at the Dark Farm ones (when they come back in stock) would you guys recommend them? Or what are the alternative SS mini kegs you would recommend?

 

[MickDundee]

Apologies for hijacking the thread slightly but I am looking to buy a couple of mini kegs and am looking at the Dark Farm ones (when they come back in stock) would you guys recommend them? Or what are the alternative SS mini kegs you would recommend?

I would recommend the SS kegs with the ball lock type taps rather than the all in one unit. If you’re anything like me, these SS mini kegs are the gateway keg into cornies. If you get the back lock lids you can use the kegs with an corny set up either alongside/instead of cornies or to package up any excess beer from the FV that won’t fit in cornies.

I got this set up last month:10L MiniKeg Sodastream Kit

 

[BrummieBrewer]

I would recommend the SS kegs with the ball lock type taps rather than the all in one unit. If you’re anything like me, these SS mini kegs are the gateway keg into cornies. If you get the back lock lids you can use the kegs with an corny set up either alongside/instead of cornies or to package up any excess beer from the FV that won’t fit in cornies.

I got this set up last month:10L MiniKeg Sodastream Kit

I did debate a corny but im limited on space, even the 9.5L is just about too big for my limited fridge space or what my better half would allow sat in the kitchen however when we move in a couple of years no doubt ill upgrade

 

[AnimatedGIF]

I went for a 5L SS keg from MM with the attachment that has the ball lock posts. The disconnects are widely available, inexpensive, and enable you to upgrade to in the future as @MickDundee has said. That way, should circunstances regarding space available change, you could easily upgrade.
Also, it opens up the range of available taps to you(party tap, beer gun, flow control etc).
While not cheap at £80 (for the keg and the lid with the posts on it), they should last.
I did look at dark farm, but given they are out of stock, I was able to get the bits I needed from MM for around the same price, though I got a party tap rather than SS flow conrol, which made it a little cheaper.

Edit - just had another look at Dark Farm. My gosh, they're good looking kegs!