Primed and bottled - but no carbonation...

[Moonraker]

My crabapple cider started at 1070 and fermented out at 993 and my blackberry cider started at 1072 and ended at 996, so both about 10% strength and very dry. I racked both off into fresh DJs and put them in an outside shed for about 3 weeks. A fortnight ago I brought them in, gave them 24 hours to get to ambient indoors temperature and bottled them with 1 teaspoon sugar per 1 litre. Since then they have been sitting in a cupboard under the stairs.

I used a couple of plastic 1l bottles per batch so that I could judge if the pressure was building in them, but after about a fortnight, nothing, nada, not a sausage. Am I being impatient, or was it not enough sugar, or are the yeast exhausted, or is the environment just too alcoholic for the poor little yeasties?

 

[freester]

My guess would be the yeast is exhausted tho I'm a bit surprised after 3 weeks of secondary... I usually add a pinch of yeast along with the priming sugar when bottling ...

 

[Moonraker]

@freester Thanks, I've still got 2 DJs to bottle so I'll give that a go at the weekend. How big is a "pinch"? (I've got big fingers!) And do you vary it according to size of the bottle? (I'm using 1l, 500ml and 330ml bottles) Finally, is yeast that has been in the freezer still viable?

 

[LED_ZEP]

Could just be a bit cold for the yeast.

 

[Begbie]

Is it possible that the 3 weeks in your shed, with the low temperatures we're getting now, it's been like a 'cold crash' and most of the yeast has dropped out, not leaving much to convert your priming sugars? I'm no expert, but in my relatively short experience of carbonating brews, I've came to a couple of conclusions as to why my own brews haven't carbonated fully...

My first thought is simply not enough sugar. I added one carbonation drop (about 2g) to each of my 500ml PET bottles of the Make Your Own American IPA. The instructions were to add half a teaspoon, which equates to approx 2g, so I thought I was doing good. After 2 weeks in a warm room, then 2 weeks in a cold loft, the carbonation is disappointing. There is fizz there, but when poured, there is no head and the fizz is only slightly there when drinking. When I brewed their Irish Stout, as per instructions, I added a teaspoon (approx 4g) and the carbonation was great. Conclusion - add 2 carbonation drops next time.

Second thought - one of my traditional meads that I brewed also had disappointing carbonation. I put this one down to leaving the mead to clear for 5 or 6 weeks after racking to secondary, having been in primary for about a month. It could be possible that by then, most of the yeast had dropped out and therefore not many were in the bottles to convert the sugars added. Again was only one carbonation drop.

...just my rambles...but freester's method of adding a pinch of yeast sounds a good idea.

 

[Moonraker]

@LED_ZEP Hmm, they're indoors... I'll try putting a couple in the airing cupboard and see if that kick starts them.

 

[LED_ZEP]

@LED_ZEP Hmm, they're indoors... I'll try putting a couple in the airing cupboard and see if that kick starts them.

Indoors temp is relative. I'm a Yorkshireman and tight so my house is just a little warmer than a Scotchman's in winter.

 

[Ron Bell]

Interested that you got an OG of 1070 with crabapples. Presumably you had some sweeter apples too in your recipe or you added sugar? I've never seen anything above 1050.

 

[Moonraker]

@Ron Bell a 50/50 mix of crab/sweet apples plus the addition of 500g Demerera sugar per gallon might have something to do with it.. ;^)

 

[Ron Bell]

@Ron Bell a 50/50 mix of crab/sweet apples plus the addition of 500g Demerera sugar per gallon might have something to do with it.. ;^)

Ah, yes. Sounds delicious! I suspect that your carbonation problems result from the yeast struggling against a high alcohol content. What sort of yeast do you use? What is sold as "cider yeast" has a lower alcohol tolerance than "sparkling wine" yeast. I also have carbonation problems - completely flat bottles are probably due to a bad seal from the crown corks. Mostly though, there is some sparkle - but it's weak. I'm beginning to suspect that the books are too cautious in suggesting the addition of 10 grams of sugar per litre. It's probably OK if you bottle when the gravity is still slightly above 1, as a lot of people do. But I like to ferment until the gravity is right down at about 0.998. Anyway, I'm going to experiment with (i) adding more yeast (as you mentioned earlier), (ii) or adding more than 10g of sugar per litre, or (iii) both. If course, you need to watch them carefully if you go adding more sugar than recommended, to make sure they don't explode.

 

[Moonraker]

So after 2 days the two bottles I put in the warmer airing cupboard were a little bit tighter than to start with, but then by comparison so were the ones left in the cooler downstairs cupboard, so maybe I'm just being a bit impatient. Time will tell...

@Ron Bell "Sounds delicious!" Umm. Having had a taste when bottling it the two adjectives I would use are "sharp" and "rough". I'm hoping it mellows a bit in time. I used VinClasse Cider Yeast, so maybe 10% is around the upper limit... I've had exploding bottles and metal screw caps bowing upwards in the past through adding excess sugar, so I'm a little wary of doing that. The next 2 DJs of "normal" cider I've got for bottling this weekend are at 0.993 so I'm going to try a pinch of yeast and 8g (two teaspoons) of sugar per litre.

 

[freester]

@freester Thanks, I've still got 2 DJs to bottle so I'll give that a go at the weekend. How big is a "pinch"? (I've got big fingers!) And do you vary it according to size of the bottle? (I'm using 1l, 500ml and 330ml bottles) Finally, is yeast that has been in the freezer still viable?

I've got biggish fingers, just a pinch I don't vary that much between 2L and 660ml bottles I usually bottle in.

As for 'sharp and rough' it will get better. Personally I don't touch any of it until after the next spring. The old boys say drink your cider when you hear the first cuckoo. The science is the malolactic ferment that occurs when it warms back up. Takes some of the sharpness away. Though if you've got a lot of cookers or sharp sweets in the juice then it will always be a bit tart.

 

[Ron Bell]

So after 2 days the two bottles I put in the warmer airing cupboard were a little bit tighter than to start with, but then by comparison so were the ones left in the cooler downstairs cupboard, so maybe I'm just being a bit impatient. Time will tell...

@Ron Bell "Sounds delicious!" Umm. Having had a taste when bottling it the two adjectives I would use are "sharp" and "rough". I'm hoping it mellows a bit in time. I used VinClasse Cider Yeast, so maybe 10% is around the upper limit... I've had exploding bottles and metal screw caps bowing upwards in the past through adding excess sugar, so I'm a little wary of doing that. The next 2 DJs of "normal" cider I've got for bottling this weekend are at 0.993 so I'm going to try a pinch of yeast and 8g (two teaspoons) of sugar per litre.

Well I'm about to bottle 4 DJs and intend to experiment. Most bottles (500 ml glass with crown corks) will have the standard 10 grams of sugar per litre and as much fresh yeast in total as I would have put in the DJ for the main fermentation. However a few bottles will have no extra yeast and a few will have both yeast and extra sugar (probably one at 15 g/litre and another at 20 g/litre. At least one bottle will be a plastic screw top - originally containing sparkling mineral water - so it must be strong enough to resist the carbonation. The plastic bottle(s) and the ones with extra sugar will be stored in a large plastic box so that they can explode safely if they insist on so-doing!! If they don't explode, I guess they should be investigated carefully as they may explode when disturbed! I won't draw final conclusions until the Spring.