Pressurised Fermentation practical use

[Paulus]

Hi all, I have been fermenting kits for about 8 months now and have had to put in a lot of temperature control due to having upward of 35C temperatures for 6 months of the year.
I've got the fermentation working well and then keeping the bottles at the fermentation temperature for 3 weeks to make sure the 2nd ferment doesn't add an acidic flavour.
I have read that pressure fermentation means that it can happen at higher temperatures, what sort of change does that mean?
I do a wide range of beer types and it would help to not have my cooling kit going full blast so much.
I only bottle so not looking to transfer to kegs. How does this affect a 2nd ferment in bottle with the beer already having a high gas content then going to an unpressured bucket before bottling (to add dextrose for the CO2). Is there a way to bottle under pressure using flip top and cap bottles?
Any advice much appreciated.

 

[foxy]

Hi all, I have been fermenting kits for about 8 months now and have had to put in a lot of temperature control due to having upward of 35C temperatures for 6 months of the year.
I've got the fermentation working well and then keeping the bottles at the fermentation temperature for 3 weeks to make sure the 2nd ferment doesn't add an acidic flavour.
I have read that pressure fermentation means that it can happen at higher temperatures, what sort of change does that mean?
I do a wide range of beer types and it would help to not have my cooling kit going full blast so much.
I only bottle so not looking to transfer to kegs. How does this affect a 2nd ferment in bottle with the beer already having a high gas content then going to an unpressured bucket before bottling (to add dextrose for the CO2). Is there a way to bottle under pressure using flip top and cap bottles?
Any advice much appreciated.

When you take the pressure off the pressure fermenter the dissolved CO2 comes out of the beer. The amount of CO2 in the beer would be temperature-dependent. The warmer the beer is the less dissolved CO2.
For adding the dextrose the amount is governed by the temperature of the beer.
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en...g-calculators/bottle-conditioning-calculator/

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Hi all, I have been fermenting kits for about 8 months now and have had to put in a lot of temperature control due to having upward of 35C temperatures for 6 months of the year.
I've got the fermentation working well and then keeping the bottles at the fermentation temperature for 3 weeks to make sure the 2nd ferment doesn't add an acidic flavour.
I have read that pressure fermentation means that it can happen at higher temperatures, what sort of change does that mean?
I do a wide range of beer types and it would help to not have my cooling kit going full blast so much.
I only bottle so not looking to transfer to kegs. How does this affect a 2nd ferment in bottle with the beer already having a high gas content then going to an unpressured bucket before bottling (to add dextrose for the CO2). Is there a way to bottle under pressure using flip top and cap bottles?
Any advice much appreciated.

If you counter pressure bottle fill you can do the bottling and not need any second ferment at all, provided you have achieved the correct vols in the beer in the pressure fermenter.

 

[Sadfield]

I have read that pressure fermentation means that it can happen at higher temperatures, what sort of change does that mean?
I do a wide range of beer types and it would help to not have my cooling kit going full blast so much.

Increased concentrations of CO2 inhibit yeast growth and subsequently ester and higher alcohol production. Lower temperature during fermentation increases CO2 in solution. Fermenting under pressure is another way of increasing CO2 in solution to achieve the same outcome.

I recommend watching this video.

 

[MashBag]

Hi all, I have been fermenting kits for about 8 months now and have had to put in a lot of temperature control due to having upward of 35C temperatures for 6 months of the year.
I've got the fermentation working well and then keeping the bottles at the fermentation temperature for 3 weeks to make sure the 2nd ferment doesn't add an acidic flavour.
I have read that pressure fermentation means that it can happen at higher temperatures, what sort of change does that mean?
I do a wide range of beer types and it would help to not have my cooling kit going full blast so much.
I only bottle so not looking to transfer to kegs. How does this affect a 2nd ferment in bottle with the beer already having a high gas content then going to an unpressured bucket before bottling (to add dextrose for the CO2). Is there a way to bottle under pressure using flip top and cap bottles?
Any advice much appreciated.

I am guessing you are brewing lager and want to reduce your chiller usage.

There is kveik that is making a lager(ish) beer. Had you thought of swapping the yeast out on your kits?

 

[hoppyscotty]

If you counter pressure bottle fill you can do the bottling and not need any second ferment at all, provided you have achieved the correct vols in the beer in the pressure fermenter.

This. Other than pressure fermenting to enable fermenting at higher temps if you need to or want to then the only other benefit to pressure fermenting as far as I can see is that it carbonates your beer naturally so no need for '2nd fermentation' or bottle conditioning. Just counterflow pressure bottle fill ready carbonated beer and you're good to go. This is the primary reason why I use pressure fermentation, though I don't do it every brew.

 

[Paulus]

I am guessing you are brewing lager and want to reduce your chiller usage.

There is kveik that is making a lager(ish) beer. Had you thought of swapping the yeast out on your kits?

Hi MashBag, I'm making more ales and stouts with some lagers.
I'd heard that Kveik produces a citric flavour?

 

[MashBag]

There is more than one kveik. Worth posting a separate thread, and get people's options.
Defo did like heat though!


Hmmm. I wonder if anyone has used kviek and also pressure?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I have done a few "lagers" using pressure and opshaug kveik.
Pitch around 30C, set spunding valve to 30 psi, lots of nutrient. Then once activity over normally a few days maintain temp to day 5 then natural fall a couple of days.
Cold crash, dump yeast, finings, dump finings and yeast. Transfer bright beer to keg or bottle. Maintain pressure for 2.5 vols as the temp falls.
Don't think it is as good as Novalager, 20C single decoction and 10 psi raising to target vols at D rest phase.

 

[dtashmore]

I am in a similar position in south Africa, I first went the kviek route with decent results, I haven't looked back since moving to pressure fermentation. I generally ferment at 16psi and hold it there for the full 14 days, cold crash and keg or bottle(counter flow) it also minimises the amount of CO2 I need, I just need to top up the head space of my kegs. still wait until winter for my stouts and porters though.

 

[hoppyscotty]

There is more than one kveik. Worth posting a separate thread, and get people's options.
Defo did like heat though!


Hmmm. I wonder if anyone has used kviek and also pressure?

I've used Kevin a few times and always under pressure...15psi and 38 degrees. Went like a train, was pretty much done within 24hrs of pitching...maybe a few hours over so got to be quick if you want to dry hop during active fermentation. Still left it for a few days to be sure, but did what it said on the Tin.

Plenty of different kveik strains..I used Voss and Hornindal for NEIPA's and West Coast styles respectively. Cant say I got a huge amount of fruity flavours from them, but then only really brewed heavily dry hopped IPA's with them...I always get a kind of heavy funk from Kveik...not just my brews but when I've had commercial Kveik beers too. Not unpleasant, just not particularly light and refreshing.

The best Kveik strain I used was Lutra which is primarily intended for pseudo lagers and apparently does a good job of replicating a nice clean crisp lager in a few days...however I used it in a West Coast recipe I normally use BRY-97 with as I wanted to turn a batch around quick - so again under pressure at a high temp. It did a great job and made a really nice crisp Westie. So I would imagine that would work well with any ale or stout if you didn't want any noticeable contribution from the yeast.

 

[MashBag]

Cracking post! I think that answers the question.

@Paulus... that has got to be worth a try, and if you need to heat a bit either side of the hot season, it will be much much easier and cheaper that chilling.

 

[Paulus]

Cracking post! I think that answers the question.

@Paulus... that has got to be worth a try, and if you need to heat a bit either side of the hot season, it will be much much easier and cheaper that chilling.

Thanks to everyone sharing their knowledge and experience. That answers it all!

 

[Paulus]

I've used Kevin a few times and always under pressure...15psi and 38 degrees. Went like a train, was pretty much done within 24hrs of pitching...maybe a few hours over so got to be quick if you want to dry hop during active fermentation. Still left it for a few days to be sure, but did what it said on the Tin.

Plenty of different kveik strains..I used Voss and Hornindal for NEIPA's and West Coast styles respectively. Cant say I got a huge amount of fruity flavours from them, but then only really brewed heavily dry hopped IPA's with them...I always get a kind of heavy funk from Kveik...not just my brews but when I've had commercial Kveik beers too. Not unpleasant, just not particularly light and refreshing.

The best Kveik strain I used was Lutra which is primarily intended for pseudo lagers and apparently does a good job of replicating a nice clean crisp lager in a few days...however I used it in a West Coast recipe I normally use BRY-97 with as I wanted to turn a batch around quick - so again under pressure at a high temp. It did a great job and made a really nice crisp Westie. So I would imagine that would work well with any ale or stout if you didn't want any noticeable contribution from the yeast.

Hi hoppyscotty, where do you order the Lutra from? I have had a look around and it's not too common in the UK or Europe.
Thanks.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Just Malt Miller I think. I get most of my ingredients from there, Get er Brewed, CML and BrewDay so would have been one of those. Got the dry version, life's too short to faff around with starters...especially if you're as disorganised as I am.

Looks like it's gone up in price since I used it....but at least you can get away with under-itching Kveik so you can probably get away with one packet.

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/omega-yeast-oyl-071dry-lutra-dried-kveik-11g/?v=79cba1185463

 

[Paulus]

Just Malt Miller I think. I get most of my ingredients from there, Get er Brewed, CML and BrewDay so would have been one of those. Got the dry version, life's too short to faff around with starters...especially if you're as disorganised as I am.

Looks like it's gone up in price since I used it....but at least you can get away with under-itching Kveik so you can probably get away with one packet.

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/omega-yeast-oyl-071dry-lutra-dried-kveik-11g/?v=79cba1185463

Thanks very much.

 

[Paulus]

I have a question about pressure control on pressurised fermentation.
If I set the spunding valve to e.g. 10 psi after pitching, that pressure comes in from the CO2 cylinder. When fermentation gets going isn't the pressure in the fermenter going to rise?
What maintains the vessel pressure to keep it low?
Or is it just that the fermentation doesn't produce that much gas?

 

[foxy]

I have a question about pressure control on pressurised fermentation.
If I set the spunding valve to e.g. 10 psi after pitching, that pressure comes in from the CO2 cylinder. When fermentation gets going isn't the pressure in the fermenter going to rise?
What maintains the vessel pressure to keep it low?
Or is it just that the fermentation doesn't produce that much gas?

The spunding valve controls the pressure at the set pressure. But better to let the yeast do its work before applying pressure, yeast produce CO2 and they are not comfortable having dissolved CO2 in their environment.

 

[Paulus]

The spunding valve controls the pressure at the set pressure. But better to let the yeast do its work before applying pressure, yeast produce CO2 and they are not comfortable having dissolved CO2 in their environment.

So better to give the yeast a day or 2 then set the pressure and let the temperature rise?

 

[foxy]

So better to give the yeast a day or 2 then set the pressure and let the temperature rise?

Not something I agree with, yeast has an operating temperature that may be 12C to 20C, depending on what you are trying to achieve, and what it is you are brewing determines the temperature.