Pressure fermenting

[foxy]

An interesting listen regarding the use of both positive and negative top pressure to control esters and higher alcohols via co2 concentration.

https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/230

Best segment of that was the 20 minute mark. I can't understand why MBA would entertain some one who works in the petrol chemical industry making biofuel to talk about beer fermentation?

 

[Sadfield]

They've an open and acute mind, perhaps?

 

[foxy]

They've an open and acute mind, perhaps?

Buggered if I know?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

unsure what the benefits are in terms of its contribution to the beer apart from suppression of esters.

I am an old cynic, and as I haven’t tried pressure fermenting I really shouldn’t comment.
I‘m also the very first to say people should brew however they like and the very best of luck to them

Nonetheless I keep getting a niggling suspicion that some of the people promoting it have a vested interest in selling the associated kit.

 

[Davegase]

I am an old cynic, and as I haven’t tried pressure fermenting I really shouldn’t comment.
I‘m also the very first to say people should brew however they like and the very best of luck to them

Nonetheless I keep getting a niggling suspicion that some of the people promoting it have a vested interest in selling the associated kit.

Being an engineer that brews, I'm surprised that curiosity hasn't got the better of you I doubt that you would need to invest in much if any of the associated kit.
As a retired engineer myself, I find cobbling together bits and pieces all part of the fun of it.
Sometimes I pressure ferment and sometimes I don't. It's possible to brew a good beer and a bad beer under pressure, and it's possible to brew a good beer and a bad beer without pressure.
I wouldn't try to persuade anyone either way. Personally I do like the savings on CO2 and the ability to naturally carbonate during the latter stages of fermentation.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Opinions on this subject are rampant. Here's mine . . .
https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/pressurized-fermentation/

Nice balanced perspective there Mike

 

[Sadfield]

Nonetheless I keep getting a niggling suspicion that some of the people promoting it have a vested interest in selling the associated kit.

That could probably be applied to most homebrew gear. Even the crudest FV's are overpriced buckets.

 

[Twostage]

I started pressure fermenting exclusively back in 2021 in basic terms I pressure ferment ales at around 20 degrees and lagers around 22 degrees (pseudo lagers) also I use spunding valves set at 10 psi for ales and 15 degrees for lagers.

I keep the spunding valves closed until co2 registers on the dial and the set to the correct pressure this also has the side effect of carbonating the the beer.

Once fermentation is done I close transfer to a Cornelius keg using a keg jumper which is two liquid disconnects with a length of pipe.

You could also harvest co2 to a keg from fermentation I’ve done this in the past until I sourced a co2 cylinder

Hi Andrew, You might not be able to answer this but if the 'ideal' pressure for pressure fermenting lagers is 15 psi (seems to be commonly referred to and you actually do it) and pressure barrels pressure release at 15psi then in theory you could use one of those right ? After all its what they are designed for - ferment under pressure until its 15 psi then keep it at that. I've got three sitting empty and if nothing else it would be a good experiment.

 

[Andrew Booth]

I ferment ales at 10 psi and lagers and ciders at 15 psi you could theoretically use a pressure barrel I haven’t used one for years but if memory serves they don’t seal very well there has been quite a lot of talk around pressure barrels over the years and again if memory serves not many people like them. I use Corny Kegs and Bottles exclusively now. I appreciate cost is a issue for everyone these days but a 20l Fermenter king junior is around the same price which also means you can swap out pressure release valves for the desired PSI for the product you are brewing.

 

[Twostage]

I ferment ales at 10 psi and lagers and ciders at 15 psi you could theoretically use a pressure barrel I haven’t used one for years but if memory serves they don’t seal very well there has been quite a lot of talk around pressure barrels over the years and again if memory serves not many people like them. I use Corny Kegs and Bottles exclusively now. I appreciate cost is a issue for everyone these days but a 20l Fermenter king junior is around the same price which also means you can swap out pressure release valves for the desired PSI for the product you are brewing.

I've got cornies (never know if its corny or cornie) too which people use to ferment in but not a spunding valve. If I got into it I'd want to get one so I could do ales as well as lagers. Never had a pressure barrel leak problem so far. I do remember the first time I saw one at full pressure and it had 'grown' by pushing the bottom out. I was convinced it was going to burst beer all over the dining room. What your saying is 'horses for courses', use a pressure fermenter then transfer to a corny.

 

[Davegase]

Hi Andrew, You might not be able to answer this but if the 'ideal' pressure for pressure fermenting lagers is 15 psi (seems to be commonly referred to and you actually do it) and pressure barrels pressure release at 15psi then in theory you could use one of those right ? After all its what they are designed for - ferment under pressure until its 15 psi then keep it at that. I've got three sitting empty and if nothing else it would be a good experiment.

Carbonation is related to temperature and pressure.
I wouldn't attempt to ferment a lager in a pressure barrel, maybe an ale.
If you're looking to achieve 2.5 vol carbonation typical of lager you would need to ferment at much lower temperature to stay within the pressure limits of a pressure barrel.

 

[Twostage]

Carbonation is related to temperature and pressure.
I wouldn't attempt to ferment a lager in a pressure barrel, maybe an ale.
If you're looking to achieve 2.5 vol carbonation typical of lager you would need to ferment at much lower temperature to stay within the pressure limits of a pressure barrel.

I get what you are saying, didn't at first, slow brain day. I know about the pressure temperature relationship - I didn't until I got cornie kegs and learned that you need to carbonate the beer cold. Your saying that if I was fermenting for carbonation and wanted 2.5 vols then I'd never get there with a PB unless it was less than 10c, right ?

I wouldn't be fermenting under pressure for carbonation though (not primarily anyway).

 

[Davegase]

I get what you are saying, didn't at first, slow brain day. I know about the pressure temperature relationship - I didn't until I got cornie kegs and learned that you need to carbonate the beer cold. Your saying that if I was fermenting for carbonation and wanted 2.5 vols then I'd never get there with a PB unless it was less than 10c, right ?

I wouldn't be fermenting under pressure for carbonation though (not primarily anyway).

Yes exactly, I always try to naturally carbonate my beers through spunding. It saves extra messing around or buying gas to carbonate.
When I ferment ales I always start with no pressure then after two or three days then I'll start spunding.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

I get what you are saying, didn't at first, slow brain day. I know about the pressure temperature relationship - I didn't until I got cornie kegs and learned that you need to carbonate the beer cold. Your saying that if I was fermenting for carbonation and wanted 2.5 vols then I'd never get there with a PB unless it was less than 10c, right ?

I wouldn't be fermenting under pressure for carbonation though (not primarily anyway).

You can get there with your corny or other pressure fermenter but there would be a worrying stress on your pressure barrel getting near those levels.

 

[Bosch]

Would any of you guys reccommend the Fermzilla. Was thinking of upgrading my old plastic buckets

 

[Andrew Booth]

I use fermenter king juniors and chubbies fermzilla works exactly the same although with more options

 

[Davegase]

Would any of you guys reccommend the Fermzilla. Was thinking of upgrading my old plastic buckets

I've used the fermezilla (pre tri-clamp version) and was very happy with the results, there is a learning curve and I would recommend you try to watch as many YouTube videos on pressure fermenting as you can.
I wasn't harvesting and reusing yeast so I also have a keg king chubby and Apollo snub nose, very happy with them so not going to get into the keg land versus keg king debate, there are pros and cons with both brands so they could learn from each other.
It depends on your requirements and budget.
But even when you have a pressure fermenter you don't have to ferment under pressure, you can still use them to reduce your risk of oxidization by doing closed transfers to keg.

 

[Bosch]

I am based in Ireland, I think I can only get the fermzilla. Thanks for the info guys

 

[Davegase]

I am based in Ireland, I think I can only get the fermzilla. Thanks for the info guys

I believe The Malt miller do ship to Ireland.

 

[Bosch]

I believe The Malt miller do ship to Ireland.

I bought yeast recently from cml and it was stopped by customs and i had to pay duties.
Brexit has made it difficult to buy from UK