Polly's Falter DDH IPA clone

[IainM]

A neighbour has started extract brewing, and wants to do an all-grain clone of a beer we've both been enjoying recently: Polly's Falter.

This is a very juice 7.2% DDH single hop mosaic IPA. The can says London Ale III yeast, no oats or any other adjuncts, just malted barley. It also says "50kg dry-hop charge and a 10kg whirlpool addition", which give the ratio for that at least, and I'll go for something similar. The beer has got quite a full mouth feel, creamy and sweet but with plenty of bitterness to offset it. Given this, this is what I've come up with, based on the Zombie Dust recipe which I've made before and is similar (albeit not as juicy):

Polly's Falter Clone, 19L
OG 1.076
FG 1.021
abv 7.2%

5.5kg pale malt
200g caramunich
350g crystal
150g melanoidin
60 minute mash, 19L with 5ml 80% lactic acid, 65C.

60 minutes boil
10g Mosaic LUPOMAX pellet, 18% AA, first wort hops
20g Mosaic LUPOMAX pellet, 18% AA, 15 minutes
20g Mosaic LUPOMAX pellet, 18% AA, 10 minutes
25g Mosaic LUPOMAX pellet, 18% AA, 5 minutes
25g Mosaic LUPOMAX pellet, 18% AA, whirlpool
100g Mosaic LUPOMAX pellet, 18% AA dry hop
Wyeast 1318 London Ale III, 1L starter stepped up to 2L starter

I've not done a big juicy IPA in a while, nor have I used the LUPOMAX pellets, so I'll happily take any comment or suggestions.

 

[Brew_DD2]

I'd lose everything except the Pale Malt from the grist. I'd also double-check with them that they're not using oats or wheat in this, as that's very unusual for the style.

I also move all of the pre-whirlpool additions and put them into the whirlpool or dry hop additions.

 

[Leon103]

Surely there is more hops needed for the whirlpool and dry hop. Plus it need a two dry hop additions

 

[samale]

My latest hazy IPA has 100g of each of mosiac lupomax citra and centennial. I split it 50/50 for flameout and dry hop. I am thinking about keg hopping.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Surely there is more hops needed for the whirlpool and dry hop. Plus it need a two dry hop additions

The Lupomax stuff has a recommended dosage of around 70% of that of T90 pellets. Even then it feels light on the dry hop.

 

[IainM]

Thanks all.

I'd lose everything except the Pale Malt from the grist. I'd also double-check with them that they're not using oats or wheat in this, as that's very unusual for the style.

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought, but I've just doubled checked the can and the ingredients are just water, malted barley, hops and yeast. Why lose everything else? My thoughts were to add sweetness and a little depth to the flavor.

I also move all of the pre-whirlpool additions and put them into the whirlpool or dry hop additions.

Surely there is more hops needed for the whirlpool and dry hop. Plus it need a two dry hop additions

My latest hazy IPA has 100g of each of mosiac lupomax citra and centennial. I split it 50/50 for flameout and dry hop. I am thinking about keg hopping.

The Lupomax stuff has a recommended dosage of around 70% of that of T90 pellets. Even then it feels light on the dry hop.

Right, OK, so does DDH mean it's dry hopped twice, or that it has double the amount? Either way, I'll up the quantities and do two additions.

 

[HopHead420]

Right, get rid of everything in your malt bill except the pale ale malt, I'm assuming the pale ale malt you are working with is about 3 Lovibond. You want no colour malts at all, what you have right now will end up looking like mud. At around 1.076 OG London Ale III will leave bags of body and a sweet edge to the beer without any crystal malts. Crystal/coloured malts are pretty much a no-no in these beers, you can't really afford for the calculated colour to go beyond 5.5 SRM before you're drinking a puddle. If anything I'd be looking to add in 2kg of Wheat Malt, Extra Pale Malt or Lager Malt to take the colour down a notch.

On the hopping...don't use all Lupomax. Blend about 50/50 by weight of T90 and Lupomax. Dry hop with this blend at around 13g/L (so about 250g total). If instead you want to just use one type of pellets, then use 17g/L of T90 Mosaic in the dry hop. Beers made with only Lupomax are lacking the depth of character and body you will be looking for.

Use about 6g/L (so about 120g) of Mosaic T90 pellets in the whirlpool at about 80C for half an hour, make sure to keep them agitated.

What's your water's mineral profile look like?

How will you package this? If the answer isn't into kegs, then to be honest I would just stick to buying cans from the lads in North Wales.

 

[IainM]

Right, get rid of everything in your malt bill except the pale ale malt, I'm assuming the pale ale malt you are working with is about 3 Lovibond. You want no colour malts at all, what you have right now will end up looking like mud. At around 1.076 OG London Ale III will leave bags of body and a sweet edge to the beer without any crystal malts. Crystal/coloured malts are pretty much a no-no in these beers, you can't really afford for the calculated colour to go beyond 5.5 SRM before you're drinking a puddle. If anything I'd be looking to add in 2kg of Wheat Malt, Extra Pale Malt or Lager Malt to take the colour down a notch.

On the hopping...don't use all Lupomax. Blend about 50/50 by weight of T90 and Lupomax. Dry hop with this blend at around 13g/L (so about 250g total). If instead you want to just use one type of pellets, then use 17g/L of T90 Mosaic in the dry hop. Beers made with only Lupomax are lacking the depth of character and body you will be looking for.

Use about 6g/L (so about 120g) of Mosaic T90 pellets in the whirlpool at about 80C for half an hour, make sure to keep them agitated.

What's your water's mineral profile look like?

How will you package this? If the answer isn't into kegs, then to be honest I would just stick to buying cans from the lads in North Wales.

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I had no idea that depth was lost with the lupomax pellets. I was planning on using Hooks Head pale malt, which is about 2-3 Lovibond. I'm happy to swap some out for extra pale, though it shouldn't need it. Water profile in Cambridge is high alkalinity:

Calcium 116.50 mg/l Ca
Magnesium 4.73 mg/l Mg
Sodium 10.63 mgNa/l
Sulphate 31.58 mg/l SO4
Chloride 22.73 mg/l Cl
Alkalinity 238.00 mg/l CaCO3

I was planning on using acid to hit mash pH, and use CaCl and table salt to hit a low SO4:Cl ratio, maybe 1:3. However, I'm more than happy to use Tesco Ashbeck and build up a different profile from there if it would make a noticeable difference.

We were planning on splitting the batch, with my half going into a CO2-purged keg, and it did worry me that the bottles might deteriorate quickly. I really wouldn't want to waste any beer if we're putting 250g in the dry hop and 120g in the whirlpool.

 

[HopHead420]

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I had no idea that depth was lost with the lupomax pellets. I was planning on using Hooks Head pale malt, which is about 2-3 Lovibond. I'm happy to swap some out for extra pale, though it shouldn't need it. Water profile in Cambridge is high alkalinity:

Calcium 116.50 mg/l Ca
Magnesium 4.73 mg/l Mg
Sodium 10.63 mgNa/l
Sulphate 31.58 mg/l SO4
Chloride 22.73 mg/l Cl
Alkalinity 238.00 mg/l CaCO3

I was planning on using acid to hit mash pH, and use CaCl and table salt to hit a low SO4:Cl ratio, maybe 1:3. However, I'm more than happy to use Tesco Ashbeck and build up a different profile from there if it would make a noticeable difference.

We were planning on splitting the batch, with my half going into a CO2-purged keg, and it did worry me that the bottles might deteriorate quickly. I really wouldn't want to waste any beer if we're putting 250g in the dry hop and 120g in the whirlpool.

Yeah, the Lupomax pellets add an awesomely bright top note, but it turns out some of those compounds which get removed add depth and complexity when present in the right amounts. I definitely wouldn't touch the hot side (whirlpool and earlier) with Lupomax, that'd be a waste.

Hook's Head is a nice pale malt, about 2.5L, so I agree if you use that as 100% of the grain bill you'll be right around 5.5SRM on the beer. Looking on untappd I would say that's about the right colour to try to emulate the beer in question.

Regarding yeast, I would personally save a few pennies and get Verdant IPA (dry format). It's another London Ale III isolate, and will bring a bit more body and character than standard London Ale III. If you already have LA III or Juice or Fog etc on hand, then just use one of those, though.

Your plan with the chalky East Anglian waters (brings back memories of making vast acid additions in Suffolk) will work well, don't bother with Ashbeck. Do run it through a carbon filter or treat it with Campden tablets to remove chlorine, though.

The bottled IPA will suffer, pretty much immediately. As for your kegging plans, how will you purge the keg with CO2? There are lots of wrong ways to do it, and a few right ones.

 

[IainM]

Thanks again.

The bottled IPA will suffer, pretty much immediately. As for your kegging plans, how will you purge the keg with CO2? There are lots of wrong ways to do it, and a few right ones.

The plan was to fill the keg with CO2 from the out valve, depressurise, and repeat a few more times, then take the lid off and syphon as carefully as possible from the bottom tap. My fv is an anvil one, stainless steel and completely airtight. However, I don't have the capability to do closed transfer so have to crack the lid to siphon.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'd also double-check with them that they're not using oats or wheat in this, as that's very unusual for the style.

That's one of the popular misconceptions, many of the early wave of top hazies never used oats or wheat, although they often had some kind of dextrin malt. So I quite believe Polly's when they say they're only using barley.

I imagine you should be able to find out what their brewlength is, to know what to divide the 60kg into, but somewhere around 12-15g/l is pretty standard these days, and 25g/l equivalent is quite common, although those higher rates almost always involve concentrated hop products of some kind.

As others have said - being paranoid about oxygen is pretty key to these kinds of beers. Using a dry yeast like Verdant can help towards that, as dry yeasts don't need aeration in the same way as liquid yeasts.

 

[Brew_DD2]

That's one of the popular misconceptions, many of the early wave of top hazies never used oats or wheat, although they often had some kind of dextrin malt. So I quite believe Polly's when they say they're only using barley.

Not sure I'd call it a misconception. The vast majority do use some kind of flaked adjuncts. I stand corrected if this is one of the few where Polly's aren't.

Where have you read that aeration pre-fermentation will lead to oxidation? That's a new one on me.

 

[HopHead420]

The plan was to fill the keg with CO2 from the out valve, depressurise, and repeat a few more times, then take the lid off and syphon as carefully as possible from the bottom tap. My fv is an anvil one, stainless steel and completely airtight. However, I don't have the capability to do closed transfer so have to crack the lid to siphon.

Happy to help.

So, that's one of the wrong ways to purge a keg. You can't purge a keg with gas alone, it takes a heinously wasteful number of gas purges to get to a reasonably good level of oxygen. Even ten fills and empties at 40psi isn't great.

Two suggestions:

1.) Look into using the output gas from fermentation to purge the serving keg (a google should find you many results, search something like 'keg fermentation purge'). This is both the best and least wasteful way to purge a keg.

2.) Fill the cleaned and sanitised keg with tap water (or liquid (not foam) starsan if you're paranoid, but you needn't worry about the cleanliness of tap water for a keg you're filling with finished beer and then putting straight in the fridge). Once completely filled, hook up your gas to the gas in, and a liquid line to the liquid out, and push CO2 into the keg at low pressure until the keg is empty. There will still be a small amount of liquid in there, so there's a bit of oxygen left over, but very little compared to your planned option. Plus, this saves a lot of gas.

Lastly, don't open up the keg after you purge it. Instead, syphon your beer in through the liquid out post - just before you hook this up to your keg make sure there is no pressure in the keg any more by relieving the last of it via the relief valve on the lid (up until this moment keep some positive pressure in the keg so that it remains sealed). Now let the beer syphon into the sealed keg (don't keep the valve on the lid open the whole time), pulling on the keg lid valve to relieve the pressure as it builds up (otherwise your syphon will eventually stop).

 

[Leon103]

One of the brewers from Polly recently moved near me, and as been working for my wife. I have yet to meet him but brewing will be the main conversation.

 

[IainM]

Fill the cleaned and sanitised keg with tap water (or liquid (not foam) starsan if you're paranoid, but you needn't worry about the cleanliness of tap water for a keg you're filling with finished beer and then putting straight in the fridge). Once completely filled, hook up your gas to the gas in, and a liquid line to the liquid out, and push CO2 into the keg at low pressure until the keg is empty. There will still be a small amount of liquid in there, so there's a bit of oxygen left over, but very little compared to your planned option. Plus, this saves a lot of gas.

Lastly, don't open up the keg after you purge it. Instead, syphon your beer in through the liquid out post - just before you hook this up to your keg make sure there is no pressure in the keg any more by relieving the last of it via the relief valve on the lid (up until this moment keep some positive pressure in the keg so that it remains sealed). Now let the beer syphon into the sealed keg (don't keep the valve on the lid open the whole time), pulling on the keg lid valve to relieve the pressure as it builds up (otherwise your syphon will eventually stop).

This is genius.

 

[IainM]

Using a dry yeast like Verdant can help towards that, as dry yeasts don't need aeration in the same way as liquid yeasts.

Good call. Three 11g packets of verdant and very light aeration should do the trick.

 

[HopHead420]

Good call. Three 11g packets of verdant and very light aeration should do the trick.

Three packs for a 19L batch with 1.076 OG? I'd pitch one pack.

 

[IainM]

Right, I've given the recipe an update. Whaddaya think?

Polly's Falter clone 23L
OG 1.070
FG 1.016
7.1% abv
EBC 9.5
IBU 61
BU:GU 0.87

Mash, 24 L, 65 C
Thickness 3 L/kg, Cambridge water + 3g CaCl & 7.5ml 80% lactic acid for a mash pH of 5.4 and a sulphate:chloride ratio of 0.7:
Ca2+ 148, Mg2+ 8, Na+ 14, Cl- 72, SO4- 51, HCO3- 228
4kg extra pale (Crisp)
2.8kg golden promise

11.5 L sparge

Boil 60 minutes
35 Mosaic 12.3% AA pellet, 60 minutes (44.2 IBU)
15g Incognito Mosaic extract, whirlpool (30 minutes @ 80 C, 10 IBUs)
30g Mosaic 12.3% AA pellet, whirlpool (30 minutes @ 80 C, 6 IBUs)
80g Mosaic 12.3%AA dry hop @ day 2 (biotransformation)
50g LUPOMAX Mosaic 18% AA dry hop @ day 2 (biotransformation)
80g Mosaic 12.3%AA dry hop @ day 6
50g LUPOMAX Mosaic 18% AA dry hop @ day 6

3 packets Lallemand Verdant IPA, 20C, ~10-12 days. No aeration.

Cold crash to 5C and carbonate to 2.4 volumes.

Anti-oxygen and dry hop extraction measures
For this, I will not aerate the wort at whirlpool but rely on 3 packets of Verdant instead. Fermentation will be done in the grainfather conical and dry hopping will be done with CO2 at positive pressure (fed up the tap @ ~2 psi), so as to not let any O2 in. First dry hop will be performed after a trub dump, so as to remove material that could sequester the flavor/aroma compounds (at positive pressure). Second dry hop will be agitated with CO2 via the tap for a few minutes, to help stir the hops. Cold crashing will be done at 2psi with the GF pressure transfer kit so as to avoid suckback. Will be pressure transferred via CO2 purged beer line into a keg of CO2 prepared using the method described by @HopHead420.

 

[Leon103]

My thoughts are you may want to cut back the first dry hop to about 10% total hops and use it for the 2nd dry hop. Also try fermenting at 15c and let it raise after a few days

 

[HopHead420]

Right, I've given the recipe an update. Whaddaya think?

My thoughts:

1.) Pitch one packet of Verdant, two at most. You do want to add oxygen before pitching the yeast (though it's much less of an issue with dry yeast), you don't need to worry about oxidation at that point, the yeast will eat it all up. I would ferment at 19C initially and raise to 23C on day two or three. If you want less of the Verdant yeast character then don't raise it. If you overpitch you are at risk of annoying diacetyl issues, and bland beer.

2.) The Mosaic at 60 is a waste of Mosaic. Stick all of that in the whilrpool and maybe use 10g or so of Columbus or something else cheap at 60.

3.) I wouldn't do a Biotransformation dry hop, but that's up to you. I highly doubt Polly's are doing it, I know Verdant and Deya certainly aren't.